HighInTheMtns Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) So, if you buy a bottle for a buddy and charge him retail, that counts as a flipper? Or if you buy a case and eventually sell some bottles at your cost, then you're a flipper? Darn, I fit that category.Sure, you're a flipper. :-) Note that I've not said anything to condemn people who sell bottles post-retail. I have my opinions about that and about those who resell them for exorbitant prices but they've not made it into this thread.More seriously, I do think that an insistence on literalism with regards to a word whose meaning is clear to all involved only makes the conversation more difficult to follow.As for you personally, I have talked to at least one person who bought one of your "flipped" bottles, and I think you did nothing but a good turn there. Cheers! Edited December 31, 2012 by HighInTheMtns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callmeox Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The use of flipping here is the "buying with the intent to sell for a profit" definition. Since licensed retailers should be in the business of making a profit, I don't classify them as flippers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I agree with that definition, flippers are 'grey market' operators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRod Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 · Hidden Hidden Forgive me. I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is... Link to comment
TheRod Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Whoever gave you the impression that retailers and distributors couldn't also be flippers or related to flippers? Distributors and retailers are nothing but flippers. Forgive me. I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is... HighInTheMtns gets it. Post deleted because I forgot to quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBottle Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) I am pretty sure that more than a handful of distributors and store owners are Pappy/BTAC flippers - and I mean in the complete grey market sense. Many of the auction and Craigslist sellers had suspiciously large quantities of the newest releases to sell. Add in the fact that a low quantity of bottles seemed to make it to the shelf the last couple years (I am talking for sale, not actually on the shelf) and it leads me to believe the retail pipeline insiders were diverting the supply to their own listings for bigger $$. Edited January 1, 2013 by LostBottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Ya think? You mean they might actually do something like that just for money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadewood Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I am pretty sure that more than a handful of distributors and store owners are Pappy/BTAC flippers - and I mean in the complete grey market sense. Many of the auction and Craigslist sellers had suspiciously large quantities of the newest releases to sell. Add in the fact that a low quantity of bottles seemed to make it to the shelf the last couple years (I am talking for sale, not actually on the shelf) and it leads me to believe the retail pipeline insiders were diverting the supply to their own listings for bigger $$.I know for sure that at least one retailer sold his Van Winkle allotment on ebay and suspect many others did as well. I doubt a wholesaler would knowingly do so; too much at stake would risk their federal permit. I would say it might be possible that a wholesaler is in cahoots with a retailer and direct more on an allotment to that retailer and take a back end cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBottle Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) I agree that the wholesale businesses themselves would probably not risk their federal permit to sell a few bottles of Pappy on the grey market. However, I have heard they heavily manipulated supply, and thus pricing, by holding back product and playing favorites. Also, while the wholesalers themselves may not have been selling on the grey market, I am betting some employees used their insider status to take on extra-curricular activities for themselves or friends. It is very telling when a state suddenly has only 1/5 the product it did last release. Edited January 1, 2013 by LostBottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourbon Boiler Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I was travelling for work a few years ago at about the time of the BTAC release. At a large Texas retailer, I asked if they had any product. I was told by an employee that another employee always buys out the entire stock upon arrival every year. "Entire Stock" might mean 1 bottle or 50, but I have a feeling they weren't all in his bunker. I would bet this behavior is very common at the retail level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Favored employee status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tico Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 All allocations are down this year, a lot of bottles are being shifted to restaurants instead of retail. While I don't think this explains all the VW shortage it absolutely contributes to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restaurant man Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I don't think generalizations can be made on VW allotments in different states. Last year van winkle switched distributors. It was sazeracs call to switch. They moved to the distributor that has the bulk of (owns buffalo trace) products. I was asked to make sure I keep ER10 in stock. Keep in mind I do about 300,000 in business a year with this one distributor (nothing even close to what a major package store could do). I'm very vocal about getting my allocation and got 4 bottles total this year. I wanted to buy them all and take em home but I left 3 on the bar for my good guests. On the first night someone wanted to buy the whole bottle of 10/107. Before they switched distributors I was getting like 12 bottles a year. It would be very possible that a liq store/ restaurant -owner/ manager could haul it all home and flip it. But if the other markets are like GA, the decision on where the bottles are allocated is made pretty high up in the distributors hierarchy and somewhat by committee due to the fact that if u piss off the wrong account, no one gets their bonus. So the likelyhood that the distributer is in collusion with flippers is a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Makes sense . . . shortens the list of Rogues & Scoundrels just a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Comp Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'll break my moratorium on VW posting by adding that in the Chicago area there is certainly more available in restaurants/bars now, with many new places just opening in the last year or two and one guaranteeing they will have it always available. Also around here, I know, from the owner admitting, of one non chain liquor store that did flip a mixed case of VW product a year ago in fall '11. Not through the internet but to one customer who grossly overpaid. And guess what...they got no allotment at all this year so I think the message was sent by the distributor. And just to remind anyone who did buy this year and how much your now overpaying, even on retail pricing, here is a link to some stores in Missouri, just back in 2011 who had the prices for the 10/107-$29.99, Lot B-$38.99 and 15-$44.99 http://thewineandcheeseplace.blogspot.com/2011/05/pappy-van-winkle.html . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 One person's price gouging is another's free market. As someone who remembers when you practically could not give bourbon away, this is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 One person's price gouging is another's free market. As someone who remembers when you practically could not give bourbon away, this is better.I believe I would prefer something in between.Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy38 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I'd prefer when you couldn't give it away. I could probably find a dusty ORVW15 on the shelf now.And I could probably still buy Lot b by the case but those days are long gone and my VW consumption is way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanSheen Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I'd prefer when you couldn't give it away. I could probably find a dusty ORVW15 on the shelf now.And I could probably still buy Lot b by the case but those days are long gone and my VW consumption is way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillP Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Way down is an understatement. Last price I was quoted on the 15 was $85. I thought about it for a sec then punched myself in the nuts to make sure I did not think about it again.Hope you had something decent to drink after that to numb the pain..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBottle Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) Way down is an understatement. Last price I was quoted on the 15 was $85. I thought about it for a sec then punched myself in the nuts to make sure I did not think about it again....and DeanSheen wins the award for Pappy comment of the year. A breath of fresh air amidst all the "I gave all the liquor store staff within a 20 mile radius handys, and not the BTAC variety, in dark parking lots to score this sole bottle of Pappy at double suggested retail price so I could impress strangers" nonsense. Edited January 6, 2013 by LostBottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wryguy Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I've seen the lot b go for as much as 160 in a unnamed liquor store in southern CT. When I got that phone call I wished I could reach through the phone to punch that guy in the balls. Got a call two days later from BevMax in Stamford, where they were asking the only slightly marked up price of 62.99. It cost us 48 last year at the bar, so it seemed like a good deal and I took it. I say last year because it has been a long time since we got any Pappy in. And we used to always have Pappy as recently as two years ago. How long til we see an MSRP of over 70 for 12 year old juice? Ridiculous IMO, no matter the provenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 If I didn't have it and a Parton really wanted some I'd give him a good choice on the house. Never know, might make a good customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.B. Babington Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Way down is an understatement. Last price I was quoted on the 15 was $85. I thought about it for a sec then punched myself in the nuts to make sure I did not think about it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanSheen Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 when EC18 was on the shelf we could drown our sorrows in a good $40 bottle, now what do we do?Well I do a few things. One of my favorites is to buy Weller 12 1.75's by the case. I just bought 3 bottles of FRsmB on sale at $27.50. That's just to name a couple options that do not leave me wanting. Gotta draw the line somewhere and the law of diminishing returns gets stronger the longer I'm in this hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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