danz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 ...I do think it ironic if not downright amusing that Bourbon the Master Distillers called undrinkable back then is now being debuted as something really special and worth big bucks. To me it's the same old Emperor in new clothes.A lot of what Diageo has been doing for the past couple of years looks like they have fallen in love with the pricing theory of Veblen goods: the idea that simply by charging a lot for their products and putting them in shiny bottles, they will be perceived as luxury items and that increasing the price will directly increase the demand.Unfortunately for long-time fans of their products, part of their strategy in this regard appears to be to push a lot of bland "smooth" product so that the product's quality and other characteristics do not distract from the more expensive = more luxurious message. In particular, I recall some concern that this is the direction Diageo will take Mortlach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl2 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 A lot of what Diageo has been doing for the past couple of years looks like they have fallen in love with the pricing theory of Veblen goods: the idea that simply by charging a lot for their products and putting them in shiny bottles, they will be perceived as luxury items and that increasing the price will directly increase the demand.Unfortunately for long-time fans of their products, part of their strategy in this regard appears to be to push a lot of bland "smooth" product so that the product's quality and other characteristics do not distract from the more expensive = more luxurious message. In particular, I recall some concern that this is the direction Diageo will take Mortlach.I expect the main reason they do it is that it generally works, at least for awhile. At a corporate level they are reading tea leaves and trying to stay ahead of trends (both up and down). Quality of product itself is often secondary. Not all companies do this but many do and it often seems that the bigger they get and more success they have the more they focus on the profit line than the balance between profit and quality (keeping in mind that making a profit is a necessity and by no means evil in my opinion. Without it there is very little motivation to keep producing anything, in spite of what Pappy may have said!). And they are almost never going to focus on the 1% of the 1% (that would be us!). In the liquor business individual distilleries and master distillers that are part of a larger corporation may not necessarily want to reach the broadest appeal at the expense of quality but don't always have a lot of say in the matter as the size of the company grows. And right now we are back on a giant corporate growth cycle as companies try to absorb one another to control markets. Diageo just seems to be the poster child for corporate driven policy for profit over quality in the spirits industry right now. I do think they have done a great deal to earn that position though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Yep . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.B. Babington Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 marketing 101: perceived quality is all that matters, actual quality means nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Only to a first time buyer. Pappy may be overrated but it's very good whisky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 marketing 101: perceived quality is all that matters, actual quality means nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) While I'm typing and drinking...I understand the disgust at Larry Schwartz's comments. They sound cynical and crass. But I'm sure similar things have been said behind closed doors at other whiskey companies. Sazerac has clearly stated that the Col. Taylor line was modeled on VW. I could also hear someone at Heaven Hill making similar statements about Elijah Craig 20 or 21. Four Roses' limited edition releases have been going up in price over the last few years. Maybe they're using that strategy too.These companies are businesses and they're in it to make money. If they think a strategy is going to make them money and they don't think there's anything illegal or unethical about it, they're going to use it. Edited March 23, 2014 by Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 These companies are businesses and they're in it to make money. If they think a strategy is going to make them money and they don't think there's anything illegal or unethical about it, they're going to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P&MLiquorsEric Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Wrong.If that's what you think you learned, then you failed the class.In the booze business, his statement is very accurate.Maybe not to the enthusiasts but the average customer uses the influence provided by marketing dollars to determine quality. Crown Royal/capt Morgan/bulleit/Smirnoff, all perceived to be a superior product because that is what their marketing says they are. Cuervo is no longer associated with diagio but it is a brand they built. It is one of the lowest quality tequilas out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 In the booze business, his statement is very accurate.Maybe not to the enthusiasts but the average customer uses the influence provided by marketing dollars to determine quality. Crown Royal/capt Morgan/bulleit/Smirnoff, all perceived to be a superior product because that is what their marketing says they are. Cuervo is no longer associated with diagio but it is a brand they built. It is one of the lowest quality tequilas out there."Perceived quality is all that matters". "Actual quality means nothing". No, these statements are in no way part of Marketing 101. It is also very poor business, and in no way a tenet of ethical and professional marketing. I certainly understand the concept of creating perceived quality in brand building that is greater than the comparative actual quality of the product, but that is a far cry from the statement made. And, I continue to find these types of broad stroke, ignorant, and pithy statements regarding the profession of Marketing, to be offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P&MLiquorsEric Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I will concede that his statement is not all inclusive of the marketing industry. We are a bit off topic regarding old blowhard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TunnelTiger Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I know that great Marketing can really improve the perception of a good product and send a great product over the top.No Marketing on the other hand is preferable over poor Marketing.Speaking from a product creator point of view. Edited March 23, 2014 by TunnelTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I like the name and whale motif though, very creative and striking imagery, right out of a Herman Melville novel. Won't cause me to buy it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGentleman Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I had some Old Blowhard last night. Its definitely not overoaked to me but it does seem like a one trick pony. A nice oak flavor but not much else. A little thin and uninspiring to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 How about the nose VG, anything there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGentleman Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The nose is oak, a little spice and alcohol. It's OK but nothing special smelling it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvd99 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 A pretty scathing review of the Orphan Barrel releases:http://www.drinkhacker.com/category/whiskey/I don't want to overstep, but I'm wondering whether this thread should be moved out of the Premium/Specialty forum on SB given that this is not really a limited release. IMO by keeping this thread here, SB is tacitly endorsing the shady marketing of this product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I didn't think the review was that bad, the tasting notes were not negative and the overall history is accurate.As for the forum I expect we will say the same things about the product irrespective of in which forum the subject is placed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 By DrinkHacker standards that was indeed scathing.It's not up to me either but given the cost and age, I still think both qualify as Premium & Specialty.Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Really? I know little about Drinkhacker as I only visit these blog/reviewers when one is linked in a post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvd99 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I didn't think the review was that bad, the tasting notes were not negative and the overall history is accurate.I was referring more to the review/comments on the overall release of these products. I agree with Josh that the comments on the juice itself were a bit harsher than usual based on Drinkhacker's history. I can't agree with Squire's point about the specialty/limited nature of these products. It seems that only Diageo thinks they are special or limited. Just because a corporate conglomerate says something's a duck, doesn't mean its actually a duck. I feel that SB should see this release for what it is and move it out of this subscriber-only forum so that unsuspecting bourbon shoppers might gain additional insight into the Orphan Barrels prior to making a rather large purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 IMO, I see no reason whatsoever to remove this thread from where it is positioned currently. I found DH's review nowhere near scathing, BTW. His tasting notes were not critical. The two whiskies are positioned as premium products, have premium credentials with their higher ages, and are priced in that realm, as well. They are minimally, Premium. Period. I've tasted the Barterhouse, and believe it to be a solid representation of a 20 year old bourbon (which isn't easy to accomplish in today's bourbon environment). Exceptional nose. Sub $80, makes it more that acceptable from my own "worth" standpoint. I would not hesitate to endorse the "worth" of Barterhouse (from my perspective) to a total newb, or to a decades long bourbon drinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I've tasted the Barterhouse . . . . Sub $80, makes it more that acceptable from my own "worth" standpoint. I would not hesitate to endorse the "worth" of Barterhouse (from my perspective) to a total newb, or to a decades long bourbon drinker.I hear 'ya Joe but I still ain't buying. I do agree with the price premise though because I think we have reached a point of no return on Bourbon pricing. You may recall I predicted some time back the majors were selling overaged Bourbon to the NDPs to help get that price bump going and it may have succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anex Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I had a little taste of Old Blowhard this past week... Too woody for my taste. Wouldn't buy it for $50 much less $150Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskwar Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I had a little taste of Old Blowhard this past week... Too woody for my taste. Wouldn't buy it for $50 much less $150Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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