P&MLiquorsEric Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Just received an offering of some of the new offerings from widow jane in New York. They are in 375 bottles, three mashbills and a retail price from $150 to $175.They also have a (what I think is an NDP) 7 year in 750ml for $70-75 retail. Widow jane is a sponsor and presenter at this weekends Bourbon Classic in Louisville. This is the only reason they are making these offerings available locally. Normally we are all in on all premium bourbons (aside from michters fools gold $4k bourbon) but these scare me. Any thoughts? Here is some info. The short story is, this is our very first run of our completely In-House, ancient grain, "single expression, 100% Organic, Non-GMO Bourbons. We have three types, Wapsie Valley, Bloody Butcher, and Bloody Butcher "High Rye." As of this moment, we have around 200-300 375mL bottles of each, that we currently only sell in our retail shop. WapsieValley:This bourbon won a silver medal at the 2013 San Francisco World Spirits CompetitionMash Bill: 85% Organic Wapsie Valley Corn, 15% Organic Malted Scarlett BarleyBloody Butcher:Mash Bill: 85% Organic Bloody Butcher Corn, 15% Organic Malted Scarlett BarleyBloody Butcher "High Rye":Mash Bill: 65% Organic Bloody Butcher Corn, 15% Organic Malted Scarlett Barley, 20% Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P&MLiquorsEric Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 And they are only 91 proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Thoughts? Yeah, the title of the thread is a contradiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theglobalguy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Speaking for myself.....not a chance. If you were a block away from the event and expected drunk bourbon lovers to wander in and hand you their wallet....maybe. Just can't see anyone paying 10x the price of readily available brands for an unknown.Look at Lock Stalk and Barrel. Anyone that carries it locally still has most of their original shipment. And that is 13yr @$130ish for 750mL. Are they age stated? Or some 24 month old product they've whipped up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Their 'regular' that retails for $75 is repackaged LDI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I'd show them the organic, non-GMO bird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P&MLiquorsEric Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Speaking for myself.....not a chance. If you were a block away from the event and expected drunk bourbon lovers to wander in and hand you their wallet....maybe. Just can't see anyone paying 10x the price of readily available brands for an unknown.Look at Lock Stalk and Barrel. Anyone that carries it locally still has most of their original shipment. And that is 13yr @$130ish for 750mL. Are they age stated? Or some 24 month old product they've whipped up?I balked at lock stock & barrel until I saw how little made it into the state. Ryes just are not big here. No matter what I prefer personally, bourbon is king. Nothing will EVER change that. We sold 1 of the 3 bottles of lock stock & barrel. My hunch is to pass on this offer. If it was a craft Kentucky Bourbon, it might be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Eric I suppose it depends on how high a premium your customers are willing to pay for 11 month old Bourbon whose only recommendation is being distilled from an organically grown variety of hybrid corn that seems to have been chosen for it's catchy name as much as anything. Edited January 31, 2014 by squire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P&MLiquorsEric Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Eric I suppose it depends on how high a premium your customers are willing to pay for 11 month old Bourbon whose only recommendation is being distilled from an organically grown variety of hybrid corn that seems to have been chosen for it's catchy name as much as anything.The email also contained a statement from the widow jane folks defending the high prices. Basically saying that they could sell every bottle in NYC at those prices. IMO, this is a long term business relationship. Sure you can find enough suckers to buy into the story and passion play but will those same people be around in 5 years when you are trying to sell legitimately aged bourbons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Then why not sell every bottle in NYC? Going to the expense and trouble of sending it around the country seems counterproductive unless there are other motives.Remember whisky isn't their business, these are the guys who set up a still in the back of their chocolate factory. Their main thrust is the manufacture of chocolate and the importation of wines, liqueurs, rum and related products.Of course if the Bourbon is being used to get their other brands into the liquor stores that would make sense.From a consumer standpoint though $300 for 750 of whisky is an awful lot to pay for an underage, underproof, untried formula cooked up in the back of a chocolate store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theglobalguy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The email also contained a statement from the widow jane folks defending the high prices. Basically saying that they could sell every bottle in NYC at those prices. IMO, this is a long term business relationship. Sure you can find enough suckers to buy into the story and passion play but will those same people be around in 5 years when you are trying to sell legitimately aged bourbons?Yah, i can respect them trying to use the "people are knocking our door down to buy this stuff" approach to marketing, but we're not talking about an established brand that is extending it's product offering. Seems a relationship between a maker and a seller should start more balanced and not a situation where you need them more than they need you. I will continue to look confused with all these small guys trying to grow really really wide distribution channels before having some depth. Other than trying to impress bankers or potential buyers with a color coded map of where your product is sold, i'm not convinced it does anything other than stretch resources too thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P&MLiquorsEric Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Good points. "Supposedly" they are only bringing them to ky because of the bourbon classic. And I agree they you don't just show up in bourbon country with a "better mousetrap" and think we will eat it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrel800 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 http://widowjane.com/products/Looked at their website, they've definitely used about every buzz word to hide the fact they probably didn't distill the older stuff and the rest of it is less than a year old. If they can sell it in NY, then good on them. Obviously I don't want to tell you how to run you're store, but I'd tell these folks to get bent and peddle their crap somewhere else. $300+ for a bottle of 1 year old bourbon made from mine water and organic corn (that probably isn't even organic having read several articles about the mislabeling in that world), I guess I'll be the 13th in this thread to get into the I'm not going to buy it line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyOldKyDram Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Jane's probably a widow bc her husband had a heart attack when he saw the price.What's the most organic way to tell em to go pound sand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Their business was started in 2011 so any whisky more than a couple years old was not made by them.The Widow Jane whisky is not made with mine water. They claim that is the source of the water used to reduce the proof down to bottling strength. Whether that's a cup per barrel (so they can say it has been used) along with regular city water is not disclosed. Factually, very little is disclosed though quite a lot is said clearly making the claim they made whisky which they clearly didn't.These guys are all hat and no cattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrel800 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Their business was started in 2011 so any whisky more than a couple years old was not made by them.The Widow Jane whisky is not made with mine water. They claim that is the source of the water used to reduce the proof down to bottling strength. Whether that's a cup per barrel (so they can say it has been used) along with regular city water is not disclosed. Factually, very little is disclosed though quite a lot is said clearly making the claim they made whisky which they clearly didn't.These guys are all hat and no cattle.I don't know how much they're using but mine water isn't something that brings clean and fresh to mind. I'm sure the place they're describing is some unicorn fart pristine place, but when I think of "mines" what comes to mind isn't what I'd want in my bourbon. Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yes, water from mine tailings is not something I would want to drink, or bathe in for that matter. I think these guys just chose it for the name, these guys are good at tossing out catchy descriptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WsmataU Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Call me naive, but I'm rooting for them. I hope they are still around in 10 years when they are really selling stuff that they've produced. I like the idea of trying to replicate the older techniques and ingredients. In fact I think I would go out of the norm and try to buy some really old whiskey barrels to use for their old growth wood. Of course, it couldn't be sold as bourbon at that point, but that's really just a title as long as you know what they used for the mash recipe. I agree the mine water is marketing hype.I remember thinking Charbay was astronomically overpriced....now I have to eat those words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 How is buying bulk whisky replicating technique? And why an offbeat hybrid for ingredients when the corn used by distillers in the 1880s is still available?The older wood canard is a myth, older is just older and doesn't make a better barrel any more than it makes a better paddle or ax handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 At those prices, I'm inclined to tell them to try using their products as an enema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisko Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I suppose it's too much to ask, but how about instead of fooling around with fancy-named ingredients, how about this instead, O my craft distilling brethren:Prepare a traditional bourbon mash, with quality ingredients and use a decent yeast. If you don't know what that means, hire someone who does.Bring it off the still at 110 or below. Put it in standard barrels.Don't dump it until it tastes good.Put it in the bottle as is (or at 100 proof if you choose to Bottle in Bond) and put an age statement on it. It wouldn't be worth $150 for a 375 mL bottle but it would be worth a second look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zillah Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't care how it tastes, how fancy you made it, what kind of bullshit marketing/history/hype you have, $300 for any whiskey is looney toons. The only time I wouldn't raise an eyebrow is if it is 30+ year old scotch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_elliott Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 $150 for 375 bottle of craft bourbon they have lost their mind. The only people dumber would be anyone that would buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I love their attitude too "Hey Kentucky, we're doing you a favor by giving you access to our super awesome whiskey with New York on the label. You're welcome."Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyOldKyDram Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I better buy a case, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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