whiskies that fail to list State of Distillation?

[Fpst]

I discovered this thread a little late, but I'm glad I found it. Being from Colorado, it frustrates me to no end whenever someone talks about this or that great new "Colorado" whiskey, referring of course to Tincup or Breckenridge or Colorado Gold or 303 (actually I don't know anyone who says 303 is good).

The word around here is that Breckenridge is sourced from Four Roses. And Colorado Gold just came back on the scene with a nice new label, but what I'm pretty sure is MGP juice in the bottle. And 303... they're another story. I'm not sure how they get away with calling it whiskey when its made from potatoes.

And I have it on good authority that not only does Tincup come from MGP, but it is also three years old, arrives at a measly 88 proof before being cut to 86 with "pure rocky mountain water" (read "Denver water"). So, I'd say its much more Indiana than Colorado. But all the liquor stores around here are still pushing it as a local Colorado product. This bothers me mostly because there are good, real Colorado whiskeys that are having a hard time competing with the prices of these MGP/fake Colorado products. Most everyone around here is eating up the fancy marketing from these other companies. But me, I think we have some good, creative and promising distilleries here in Colorado, and I'd like to see what they can do 10 or 20 years from now once they are more established and are sitting on more aged product... that is if they can last that long.

[cowdery]

The amazing thing is that, at least on Facebook, when you tell people the truth about Breckenridge they aren't grateful, they're angry and in denial. How is it that people can invest so much emotion in a whiskey that they go all cognitive dissonance when you tell them the truth about it?

[bad_scientist]

The amazing thing is that, at least on Facebook, when you tell people the truth about Breckenridge they aren't grateful, they're angry and in denial. How is it that people can invest so much emotion in a whiskey that they go all cognitive dissonance when you tell them the truth about it?

Uh, have you been to Texas recently? The fake distilleries there have angry, violent followers. Yellow Rose Rye? You could get killed if you point out it's just young, overpriced Bulleit.

[wadewood]

The amazing thing is that, at least on Facebook, when you tell people the truth about Breckenridge they aren't grateful, they're angry and in denial. How is it that people can invest so much emotion in a whiskey that they go all cognitive dissonance when you tell them the truth about it?

Yeap - this article appeared the other day in a local Houston rag - http://blogs.houstonpress.com/eating/2014/07/a_ranking_of_texas_whiskeys_under_40.php#more. I made some legit comments and for that I learned that God hates me, that I'm an ugly naysayer, and also got a thinly veiled threat.

[bad_scientist]

Yeap - this article appeared the other day in a local Houston rag - http://blogs.houstonpress.com/eating/2014/07/a_ranking_of_texas_whiskeys_under_40.php#more. I made some legit comments and for that I learned that God hates me, that I'm an ugly naysayer, and also got a thinly veiled threat.

If they had your address, you wouldn't be writing now.

[Fpst]

The amazing thing is that, at least on Facebook, when you tell people the truth about Breckenridge they aren't grateful, they're angry and in denial. How is it that people can invest so much emotion in a whiskey that they go all cognitive dissonance when you tell them the truth about it?

I think it's because people wrap their identities up in the brands they support. I may be a fan of Breckenridge (or Brand X), maybe even from the very beginning, but that doesn't define who I am. My identity is not suddenly cast into doubt if a business I have supported does some shady things. Like most people, I have favorite brands for many different products I buy. But my loyalty is such that if their quality deteriorates or shady practices come to light, I have no problem switching to another brand if other options are available.

Anyway, Wade, I'm glad you're still with us. But if you need to go into hiding for awhile, be sure to discretely get us the GPS coordinates for your cave so we can keep you in Bourbon.

[garbanzobean]

I think it's because people wrap their identities up in the brands they support. I may be a fan of Breckenridge (or Brand X), maybe even from the very beginning, but that doesn't define who I am. My identity is not suddenly cast into doubt if a business I have supported does some shady things. Like most people, I have favorite brands for many different products I buy. But my loyalty is such that if their quality deteriorates or shady practices come to light, I have no problem switching to another brand if other options are available.

An excellent way to live your life. I generally find that wrapping my heart and soul around anything owned by a soulless, amoral multinational is an excellent way to go cruisin' for a bruisin' at the cash register. I am not going to lie though, it is a guilty pleasure to read (and occasionally participate in) the "discourse" about bourbon on Facebook. Discussion of NDPs with questionable business practices is particularly entertaining.

[Quantum]

Yeap - this article appeared the other day in a local Houston rag - http://blogs.houstonpress.com/eating/2014/07/a_ranking_of_texas_whiskeys_under_40.php#more. I made some legit comments and for that I learned that God hates me, that I'm an ugly naysayer, and also got a thinly veiled threat.

Wade, I am having a hard time believing this is the first time comments such as those have been directed at you...:skep:

[callmeox]

It isn't news that people get emotional about what amounts to consumer choice.

America is an odd place that way.

[Josh]

Always makes me wonder how many of these people who get mad have ties to the very operations that are engaging in the questionable marketing and bad labeling. In my experience, people who tell me "the only truth is what's in the glass" are usually trying to sell me something.

[Quantum]

I think part of it is certainly some sort of relationship with the operation in question, but another part is that people don't like being told they have been suckered. I've seen some people go to great lengths to avoid admitting that they have been duped, and these people generally don't react well to the truth. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make an idiot pull their head out of their own ass.

[smknjoe]

Wade, I am having a hard time believing this is the first time comments such as those have been directed at you...:skep:

Funny stuff right here.

Wade, how dare you tell the truth! Have you no morals...wait...? :confused:

[mbroo5880i]

I stopped reading the article and just skipped to the comments when she starting talking about breweries.

[cowdery]

Luckily for many of us, most people who make threats on the internet will never leave their parents' basement and actually do something.

[wadewood]

[TABLE=width: 700]

[TR]

[TD=align: left]Dear Mr. Woodard:

Thank you for reaching out to our office concerning TTB labeling policies. I appreciate hearing from you on this issue and value the chance to respond.

The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau plays an important role in regulating alcohol sales. As you pointed out, the labeling policies have substantial implications for local businesses and consumers. It is important that our policies are adhered to and the failure to do so should have repercussions. Furthermore, as a proud Texan, I firmly oppose businesses importing goods and falsely labeling them as being made in our state.

I assure you that I will look into the matter and work to protect local businesses in Texas. While I do not sit on the Banking and Financial Services Committee which regulates the Treasury Department and all subsequent agencies under it, I will write a letter to the Commissioner of the TTB to enquire about these allegations and how they are enforcing these labeling requirements and investigation potential violations.

Thank you again for contacting my office. Please do not hesitate to do so in the future if we can be of further assistance.

.

Sincerely,

Gene Green

Member of Congress[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[jmj_203]

[TABLE=width: 700]

[TR]

[TD=align: left]Dear Mr. Woodard:

Thank you for reaching out to our office concerning TTB labeling policies. I appreciate hearing from you on this issue and value the chance to respond.

The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau plays an important role in regulating alcohol sales. As you pointed out, the labeling policies have substantial implications for local businesses and consumers. It is important that our policies are adhered to and the failure to do so should have repercussions. Furthermore, as a proud Texan, I firmly oppose businesses importing goods and falsely labeling them as being made in our state.

I assure you that I will look into the matter and work to protect local businesses in Texas. While I do not sit on the Banking and Financial Services Committee which regulates the Treasury Department and all subsequent agencies under it, I will write a letter to the Commissioner of the TTB to enquire about these allegations and how they are enforcing these labeling requirements and investigation potential violations.

Thank you again for contacting my office. Please do not hesitate to do so in the future if we can be of further assistance.

.

Sincerely,

Gene Green

Member of Congress[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Ha Ha, thats awesome. Hope it goes somewhere, and some of these violators are punished to the maximum. (WHatever that may be) I think that when you see people getting snippy online when you are pointing out the obvious, that the labels are misleading consumers to believe its a true Texas made product, you can probably bet a large percentage of the time those people are family/friends/somehow related to the company or companies you are calling out for their deceptive practices. I would say its less likely they are just consumers who refuse to accept the reality they've been duped. Much more likey they're involved and hoping to silence any criticism before the flames get fanned too high. Which is why I say it will put a smile on my face if there is a day this proceeds to the final point it should, of violators facing not only fines & punishment, but a true public shaming to the people of Texas they've been deceiving.

[TunnelTiger]

I have as much faith in the TBB acutally doing their job as I do the VA, IRS, and ICE.

Not gonna happen.

Where else can you get a job and not to perform in like forever? Well other than the Chicago Cubs

[dcbt]

Where else can you get a job and not to perform in like forever? Well other than the Chicago Cubs

And all meteorologists ever...

[cowdery]

Mean Gene Green, first in the pool. Good job, Wade.

Don't mess with Texas.

Nothing so far from my rep, or from the co-chairs of the Congressional Bourbon Caucus, or from KDA, but I can say my letter has been respectfully received and distributed at DISCUS and they're looking into it.

[dcbt]

Retailers probably don't help to clarify the situation much. Got an email ad for Goody Goody today, sale off all Texas-made bottles. You can be sure several of those aren't truly Texas-made.

[KyleCBreese]

Not sure, but should Rough Rider bourbon be included in this list?

[TunnelTiger]

I have as much faith in the TBB acutally doing their job as I do the VA, IRS, and ICE.

Not gonna happen.

Where else can you get a job and not to perform in like forever? Well other than the Chicago Cubs

I forgot to add the CDC to the list, misplaced vials, I mean words can't describe.

[T Comp]

Put another log on the fire, Indio Spirits-James Oliver Rye "produced & bottled by Indio Spirits, Portland, Oregon". One that Gary-darylld911 had posted about back in January http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?21493-James-Oliver-Rye&highlight=indio and made its way to Binny's.

[cowdery]

Note that 5.65(e) also applies to this issue.

(e) Place of origin. The advertisement shall not represent that the distilled spirits were manufactured in or imported from a place or country other than that of their actual origin, or were produced or processed by one who was not in fact the actual producer or processor.

Unfortunately, the rules allow anyone who does anything, i.e., a bottler, to legally use the term 'produced by,' even though the consumer probably understands the meaning of 'produced by' differently.

[wadewood]

I believe Traverse City Whiskey Company is also in violation of the state of distillilation rule.

you sure? most of their labels state distilled, aged and bottled by them in Michigan.