Our ongoing observations about whether the boom has peaked

[smokinjoe]

Paid advertising for Diageo.

Yep. And Diageo's muscle is the reason it's everywhere else that folks see it, and most likely why it is so high on the premium list Chuck reported on.

[flahute]

Just from my limited experience, it just seems like many folks get caught up with "store selections" and "private barrels" these days. Sheesh, like everyone is trying to find the next Lenells Red Hook.

I doubt this. Two very different things.

[johnnybogey]

I doubt this. Two very different things.

hey Flahute. Can you clarify why you think these are two very different things?

Thanks

[flahute]

hey Flahute. Can you clarify why you think these are two very different things?

Thanks

A store selection or private barrel is simply a single barrel of a standard regularly available product. It may vary from the regular a little bit (which is a good thing usually when it's a little better or different) but is not a major departure from the regular.

LeNell's Red Hook was a one off 20+ year old rye that was unlike anything else. Completely unique and now legendary.

I don't think anyone doing a store selection thinks they are on the same level as that.

[johnnybogey]

A store selection or private barrel is simply a single barrel of a standard regularly available product. It may vary from the regular a little bit (which is a good thing usually when it's a little better or different) but is not a major departure from the regular.

LeNell's Red Hook was a one off 20+ year old rye that was unlike anything else. Completely unique and now legendary.

I don't think anyone doing a store selection thinks they are on the same level as that.

Flahute, thanks for explaining. Had no idea Lenell's was a 20+ year old rye. Just figured it was rare given the number of bottles produced.

[tanstaafl2]

A store selection or private barrel is simply a single barrel of a standard regularly available product. It may vary from the regular a little bit (which is a good thing usually when it's a little better or different) but is not a major departure from the regular.

LeNell's Red Hook was a one off 20+ year old rye that was unlike anything else. Completely unique and now legendary.

I don't think anyone doing a store selection thinks they are on the same level as that.

One exception is Four Roses (or at least it used to be. Who knows what the future holds...). The cask strength store selections are the only way to get barrel proof versions of the 10 different recipes especially now that the annual Limited Edition single barrel is gone or on "hiatus".

[flahute]

One exception is Four Roses (or at least it used to be. Who knows what the future holds...). The cask strength store selections are the only way to get barrel proof versions of the 10 different recipes especially now that the annual Limited Edition single barrel is gone or on "hiatus".

Absolutely true. I was not referring to them because they are a unique offering in their own right and not a single barrel of something regularly offered (unless it's OBSV of course).

[kjbeggs]

And now there's this...

(From the Neiman Marcus Christmas Book)

[RWBadley]

And now there's this...

(From the Neiman Marcus Christmas Book)

Wow, you gotta be sh@##ing me?! 125K for several bottles of decent but not better than that booze? 5K to charity- whatta deal

[Robertsccr5]

Wow, you gotta be sh@##ing me?! 125K for several bottles of decent but not better than that booze? 5K to charity- whatta deal

Nevermind. After re-reading I think they're saying each of the people on the trip get 25 bottles comprised of a mix of 8 different releases.

[BigBoldBully]

Saw that Neiman Marcus thing on Chuck's blog yesterday, and got to wondering last night if it really is just 192 bottles for $125,000, working out to about $650 each, as Chuck states, or if really you get five sets of 192 bottles--which would make it around $130 each and much more in line with reasonable expectations. But I am too lazy (and relatively uninterested) to actually check with Neiman Marcus.

[Tony Santana]

I gather it includes a trip (for 5) to the Stitzel-Weller property, traipsing around the warehouse, and somehow sampling and choosing your own special Orphan Barrel (with your own label!) Not that those extras come anywhere close to justifying the price, but it's more than just the bottles.

[GAbiker]

Absolutely true. I was not referring to them because they are a unique offering in their own right and not a single barrel of something regularly offered (unless it's OBSV of course).

Another exception is Whistle Pig single barrels. Last year only 50 barrels total for the US. In GA, for example, I know of only 2 purchasers that left it cask strength, everyone else proofed it down to 100....

[BigBoldBully]

I gather it includes a trip (for 5) to the Stitzel-Weller property, traipsing around the warehouse, and somehow sampling and choosing your own special Orphan Barrel (with your own label!) Not that those extras come anywhere close to justifying the price, but it's more than just the bottles.

Yes, having gotten back onto my butt to check with the source it appears that is correct--along with stuff like "a bespoke whiskey cabinet crafted in Kentucky to house the collection, barware, and a leather-bound book about your whiskey." The $125,000 does not seem so bad now.

[tanstaafl2]

Yes, having gotten back onto my butt to check with the source it appears that is correct--along with stuff like "a bespoke whiskey cabinet crafted in Kentucky to house the collection, barware, and a leather-bound book about your whiskey." The $125,000 does not seem so bad now.

Yes, it only seems crazy rather than completely bat shit crazy...

It appears it is 192 bottles plus the trip for you and 4 friends, the cabinet, barware, book etc. for the one person, not 192 bottles for all 5 people.

[GaryT]

Yes, it only seems crazy rather than completely bat shit crazy...

It appears it is 192 bottles plus the trip for you and 4 friends, the cabinet, barware, book etc. for the one person, not 192 bottles for all 5 people.

Well hell! 192 bottles EACH?!?! Where do we sign up??

With 960 bottles, if the folks attending paid a "premium" for that portion, could probably part with many of the bottles for $100 - which wouldn't be outrageous. Although a lot of money to shell out upfront. Although given the prices people pay for stuff these days . . . I hate to say it, but I'd bet someone could turn a profit on that . . . if they had a spare $125k laying around ((checking couch cushions, and coming up about $124,999.75 short))

[fozzy71]

Well hell! 192 bottles EACH?!?! Where do we sign up??

With 960 bottles, if the folks attending paid a "premium" for that portion, could probably part with many of the bottles for $100 - which wouldn't be outrageous. Although a lot of money to shell out upfront. Although given the prices people pay for stuff these days . . . I hate to say it, but I'd bet someone could turn a profit on that . . . if they had a spare $125k laying around ((checking couch cushions, and coming up about $124,999.75 short))

I didn't read it but according to the post above yours it is 192 total bottles.

[Louisiana]

I don't believe it has peaked, because limited products are getting harder to find every year. Stores keep receiving less allocation continuiously. It's not just the once a year limited edition items though. I see stores carrying various Buffalo Trace barrels and Four Roses barrels that have never bought a barrel before. I see people trying to flip private barrels like they are super rare? This is the true definition of madness.

I have really good relationships with owners of stores who tell me exactly what they are getting each year. Loyal customers get the good stuff and that's the way it should be. If more store owners were loyal to their customers it would eliminate most of our issues. I could drink mid-shelf bourbon and be happy for there rest of my life. It is nice to have an upper shelf that's phenominal every once in a while though.

The peak will end when people:

1.)Drink it and say I'm not paying this for that.

2.)Can't buy on secondary market (illegal sells) gets banned.

3.)Stop buying bourbon. (Either enough bunkered or moved to another whiskey(y))

At any rate. Time always tells. Always!

[smokinjoe]

I see people trying to flip private barrels like they are super rare?

[Louisiana]

Well, the argument could be made that "private barrels" are the epitome of "super rare"...I mean, the number of bottles is very limited...

Valid point. These barrels do have a flavor that can never be duplicated again. Some true gems have come from private barreling. You have a decent chance at finding these in store though is what I was meaning. Maybe not tomorrow though. I saw one go in 2 1/2 weeks. Hope this trend doesn't continue.

[Auracom]

So far this fall season has went exactly as I expected. Which means things are worse than last year. Coincidentally, my enjoyment has increased while my effort to hunt has decreased to virtually nothing. I am getting close to zen.... I can feel it.

[tanstaafl2]

I stand corrected. From Chuck's article and other sources it does sound like each person gets their own set of 192 bottles as well as everything else including the trip to S-W. If we generously say the cabinet, barware, book and trip add up to a couple of grand then the cost of each bottle is a mere $120 or so ($23,000/192 bottles). If you only allow $1000 for the extras then the bottles go up to $125. Not that bad I suppose if you can pick a couple of truly outstanding whiskies in your two wild card bottling's and you can make use of 192 bottles of whiskey. Nice gifts for years to come at the very least...

So where do I sign up??? Just need four like minded friends...

:bigeyes:

[gohrmund]

I think the bourbon craze is slowing in Baltimore, or people are saving money for the BTAC bottles. Today, I came across a few bottles I rarely see. Garrison Cowboy, Belle Meade Sherry, many of the OB, CEH Taylor Barrel proof, even baby saz. Plenty of Masters Keep ranging for $145-175.

There was also an event at Power Plant Live today called pig and swig. I bought a VIP ticket Thursday and Friday they cancelled the vip part of the event for lack of interest.

Maybe a slow down is coming.

Gary

[flahute]

Well, the argument could be made that "private barrels" are the epitome of "super rare"...I mean, the number of bottles is very limited...

When I find a private barrel that tickles my fancy, I sure do treat it like a super rare and stock up.

[Louisiana]

The Fall Release of LE's has shown that the Bourbon Boom has not peaked yet. One would think that it couldn't get much crazier, but really no one knows.