Bourbon Availability Downunder

[camduncan]

I've been meaning to start this post for a while....

I'm interested in establishing just what bourbons are available from what retailers here in Australia. Please feel free to add any others to this post if I've missed some.

Jim Beam products - Jim Beam White, Black, Rye and Beams Choice, as well as the small batch range (Knob, Bakers, Bookers & Basil Haydens) and the Small Batch with port bottle are all carried by literally every retailer in Australia.

Heaven Hill New Zealand products are stocked by Liquorland, Theos & Vintage Cellars. All carry a small range including Kentucky Gold, Evan Williams Black Label, Evan Williams Single Barrel, Elijah Craig 12 Year Old, Virgin Bourbon, Sam Sykes, Daniel Stewart, Bourbon Falls, Fighting Cock, and Bourbon Royal.

Bulleit Bourbon is available in most larger outlets.

Old Rip Van Winkle products are sold by Burwood Cellars in Victoria. Last I heard they had stock of ORVW Family Reserve Rye and ORVW 20yo Family Reserve.

Blantons is stocked by Nick's Wine Merchant's in Melbourne. They have stock of Original, Gold lablel and Family Reserve.

Jack Daniels is sold in all retailers.

[pete_d]

With Jim Beam, you've also got the Bonded Beam (Gold Label) not sure if this is an export only thing. I cannot understand why Old Grandad is not imported under Jim Beam Brands.

I'm not sure if fighting cock is still being imported. Last saw it at a Theo's about 12 months ago.

With JD, We've got JD Green Label, JD Black Label, Gentleman Jack, and JD Single Barrel. - available most places.

Wild Turkey 86, Wild Turkey 101 8yo, Wild Turkey Rare Breed, and the mixers - available most places.

Woodford Reserve is getting more common here as well. Old Forrester however is not available as of yet.

[Hedmans Brorsa]

I have been told that the mythical Indiana bourbon Sam Cougar black is a product made exclusively for the Australia/New Zealand market but maybe it has been discontinued?

[pete_d]

Never tried it, so can't comment on quality, but I believe there are two strains of Cougar available here. By brother (the cad who got me into bourbon) said both taste slightly better if cut 1/1 with ammonia.

I don't think he cared for it too much.

[Tallica]

There is the plain Cougar ( 5 yrold at a lowly 74 proof) & then there is XS Cougar(black no age statement but 86 proof)

Cougar used to be my standard mix with coke.

I would on the nose it has dominant aniseed & tobacoo overtones.

Well I just had my first Cougar since my coke drowning days, obviously not alot of kick & somewhat underwelming but finish is surprisingly long.

[Hedmans Brorsa]

Thanks for the info. Well, there you go - I only knew of one Cougar bottling. You say that the 74 proof is 5yo. Is this stated on the label? I ask because I have one bottle of the 74 proof. It is called Sam Cougar black but there is no age statement. The whiskey I find to be OK, if hardly sensational. If anything, it is the very antithesis to bourbons like Knob Creek in that it is one of the most non-sweet bourbons that I have ever tasted.

Sorry Camduncan (and Jim) for partly hi-jacking this thread but there´s so few opportunities to talk about Cougar.

I also find it highly amusing that a whiskey that I´ve been hunting for several years is used a lowly mixer down under.

[Tallica]

The age is on the label. I beleive Cougar is bulk shipped to Aust & bottled here.

Jim Murray in one of his books pays Cougar quite a high compliment putting it in his top ten Bourbons.

Each to his own.

[camduncan]

Forgot to mention, I've also seen a few bottles of Sam Houston at either BWS or the Grape stores. It retails for around the same price as Bookers.

[camduncan]

Jim Murray in one of his books pays Cougar quite a high compliment putting it in his top ten Bourbons

Cougar is what most pubs, clubs and bars tend to sell as a house bourbon and a cheaper alternative to Jim Beam White (at least here in the state of Queensland)

It's never been a favourite of mine, but I've only ever drunk it at the pub with a post-mix coke added....and if they have Jim Beam White, I'll always ask for that rather than drink the house bourbon (Cougar..)

[camduncan]

I've also recently heard that Four Roses is available in limited quantities at one of the Melbourne stores...

[Tallica]

I picked one up some time ago at Clarinda cellars

[camduncan]

It's interesting to see that in Jim Murray's 2005 Whiskey Bible, he rates Cougar Bourbon at 93/100.

I'm not sure I can translate his notes here without infringing copyright, but I certainly wouldn't rate Cougar equal to the likes of Blanton's Gold, Blantons Single Barrel, Bookers or Rip Van Winkle 15yo...

[Hedmans Brorsa]

I find Mr. Murray to be pretty reliable when it comes to bourbon, Irish whiskey and deluxe blended Scotch. Less so, however, regarding standard bottlings, Canadian whisky and exotica. Examples of the latter would, for instance, be the only single malt from Pakistan, the only oat whisky made in the world or, in this case, the only (?) bottled straight bourbon from Indiana. For some reason he seems to go bonkers when dealing with products like these.

Was it the 74 or 86 proof that he reviewed? As I´ve more or less written before, I find the low proof version to be perfectly drinkable but hardly an earthshattering experience. I´ve never had or even seen the XS bottling. Is this supposed to be a deluxe version of Cougar?

What I would be really interested in, is the reasoning behind this phenomenon. Why is this whiskey so heavily promoted in the pacific market and totally invisible in the rest of the world?

[camduncan]

Was it the 74 or 86 proof that he reviewed? As I´ve more or less written before, I find the low proof version to be perfectly drinkable but hardly an earthshattering experience. I´ve never had or even seen the XS bottling. Is this supposed to be a deluxe version of Cougar?

It's the 74 proof bottling.

I must admit that my only real experience with Cougar is that it is usually offered as the 'house' bourbon instead of Jim Beam White at some clubs or pubs. I think I paid $6.80 AU for a Cougar & coke last week...and a Jim Beam white and coke was $7.50 when I asked for it.

I've not tried the XS....but am thinking of getting a bottle in the new year to try.

[camduncan]

I guess as an extension of this thread - my wish list for bourbons not currently available down under would have to be -

Ejijah Craig 18yo (apparently comming next year)

Evan Williams 23yo

and...

Any bottling from the Buffalo Trace Distilery - BT, Blantons, Antique collection, Van Winkle (although, Van Winkle is available in very limited quantities at somewhat expensive prices)

[TNbourbon]

I find Mr. Murray to be pretty reliable...Less so, however, regarding standard bottlings, Canadian whisky and exotica. Examples of the latter would...be the only ...(?) bottled straight bourbon from Indiana.

It's the 74 proof bottling.

Guys, I realize that U.S. liquor/labeling laws don't apply there, but, for the record (and, perhaps, your interest), a 74-proof Cougar -- even from Indiana -- would not qualify as a straight bourbon here. The minimum for any whiskey (straight or not) to carry the name 'whiskey' on the label is 80 proof.

[musher]

Guys, I realize that U.S. liquor/labeling laws don't apply there, but, for the record (and, perhaps, your interest), a 74-proof Cougar -- even from Indiana -- would not qualify as a straight bourbon here. The minimum for any whiskey (straight or not) to carry the name 'whiskey' on the label is 80 proof.

Are we talking US proof, or British proof? Is it standard down there, and if so, is it the British standard? If so, then the 74 proof would actually be 84.6 US proof.

US 100 proof is the same as British 87.5 proof, both of which are 50% alcohol by volume.

[Hedmans Brorsa]

The minimum for any whiskey (straight or not) to carry the name 'whiskey' on the label is 80 proof.

This minimum applies for Europe, as well (or at least Western Europe).

I should, of course, have written "the only bottled bourbon from Indiana". Examining my bottle, I found no traces of the word straight. What it says is : "Authentic Kentucky style bourbon whiskey"

Are we talking US proof, or British proof? Is it standard down there, and if so, is it the British standard? If so, then the 74 proof would actually be 84.6 US proof.

Hmm, an insightful observation. Maybe one of the Australians who have actually seen the XS bottling can clarify? A primitive Google search yielded no results...

[TNbourbon]

I should, of course, have written "the only bottled bourbon from Indiana". Examining my bottle, I found no traces of the word straight. What it says is : "Authentic Kentucky style bourbon whiskey"

Actually, it can't either 'bourbon' or 'whiskey' under 80 proof because, of course, it has to be whiskey before it can be bourbon. So, I think Mike must have hit on the answer -- different system of measuring proof.

[Hedmans Brorsa]

I think Mike must have hit on the answer -- different system of measuring proof.

Unfortunately,no. Examining the label once more, I discover that it says : 74 US proof. The answer clearly must be found within the field of Australian jurisdiction.

Like you, I´ve also been pretty sure that the the terms 'straight' and 'bourbon' are inseparable. I even remember that, several years ago, on this forum, I asked in a state of confusion what constituted a non-straight bourbon.

I don´t know, maybe deviations are allowed within the confines of a certain country´s jurisdiction?

[boone]

I don't know what is "standard" for other distilleries...but when we call for a "proof check" after circulation or wash out (on the line)...It's done in "proof gallons"...Upstairs (Tank room) ...they use Wine gallons and Proof gallons for measure

On a few EXPORT labels the proof is 74.4 ABV...We use the same unit of measure for all on the line

Actually...the way "we" check proof (it's the same with all, with exception of "sweet" products such as Copa De Ora, Schnapps etc...we have to "cook the sweet stuff to get a ABV ) I will take a bottle...with at least 200 bottles on that particular run to the lab...Take a syringe of product and inject it into this neat little machine Set the proper numbers and "Wella" like magic it will give me the exact proof in less than a minute Alot faster than the "old fashioned" way they have to do in the dump room This unit of measure is standard for all white and brown product on the line--U.S. and Export--

Sooooooo...it's the same unit of measure here...it could possibly be different numbers there...I have noticed that the ones with 74.4 and 74.6 got to Australia...but I have noticed that a few of those go to Japan too...

Bettye Jo

[camduncan]

The minimum for any whiskey (straight or not) to carry the name 'whiskey' on the label is 80 proof.

I just checked some other bottles - my Jim Beam White label and Jim Beam Rye are both 37% or 74 proof as well. These also say they are bottled in Australia, so I guess they are imported here in barrels and then bottled which might explain how they are less than 40% or 80 proof

[pete_d]

The minimum for any whiskey (straight or not) to carry the name 'whiskey' on the label is 80 proof.

I just checked some other bottles - my Jim Beam White label and Jim Beam Rye are both 37% or 74 proof as well. These also say they are bottled in Australia, so I guess they are imported here in barrels and then bottled which might explain how they are less than 40% or 80 proof

I think you're right. By checking the Binny's site I can see that a bottle of Jim Beam com es in 750ml, yet when we buy it here it comes in a 700ml bottle. It looks like there is a bottling system here. Perhaps to cut down on import duty?

[Tallica]

The XS Cougar is 86 US Proof

[Ken Weber]

I really don't want to get started on this, but.... Several months ago I was asked to attend a meeting of the KDA (Kentucky Distillers Association) because my boss was out of town. That was the third time I did it and as far as I am concerned, my last. I was so ticked off because they took a vote to see if the KDA should support bourbon going to Australia at less than 80 proof.

I raised the issue that the regs stipulate that bourbon can not be bottled at less than 80 proof and retain the name "bourbon". You see, the problem is that an 80 proof bourbon is taxed at a rate much higher than a 74 proof whiskey. It all boils down to profitability and the ability to compete with other lower proof spirits. This is one of the reasons RTDs are so popular in Australia, they have an inherently lower proof.

At the end of the KDA meeting we took a vote and as I recall, Jimmy Russell, a gentleman from Maker's Mark, and I were the only ones voting against the proposal. When we get to Australia with Buffalo Trace, it will still be 90 proof, despite the tax implications. Now you get an idea why Stagg is sooooo expensive down under!

Ken