Bourbon Availability Downunder

[Damien]

Thanks for the welcome!

To be honest, thats the exact rumour I heard, but as I haven't heard/read anyhthing else about it on the internet, I didn't think it was true. Apparently, the victorian importers of it have no more stock.

The rest of the rumour I heard was that Jim Beam are going to be using the Knob Creek distillery to make the small batch with the port in it.

Just in case it was true, I bought the last two bottles at two different stores.

[cowdery]

I have no way of knowing if Jim Beam is or is not going to continue selling Knob Creek in Australia but I can assure you that the brand is not being discontinued world wide. Far from it. It is hugely successful and becoming a second "flagship" brand for the corporation, being mentioned in all of the corporate boilereplate. The rumor that "Jim Beam is going to be using the Knob Creek distillery to make the small batch with the port in it" is patently ridiculous because there is no "Knob Creek Distillery" and adding port or anything else to a whiskey takes nothing more than a couple of stainless steel tanks by the bottling line.

[Hedmans Brorsa]

Thanks.

Some older Swede lurking on this forum might step forward and correct me, but to my knowledge Seagram´s 7 crown is the only American blend that has ever been available here. It´s been ages since I last tried it and I honestly don´t remember much of its profile.

From time to time I feel an urge to buy a 375 ml bottle just to satisfy my curiosity. Hasn´t happened yet, though. I guess there´s too much exciting things going on in the world of quality whiskey.

Anyway, could this Kentucky Gold,as suggested by Gillman, be a cordial? (whatever that is). Only 46 proof (!)

"Blended with genuine Kentucky bourbon" is what i says on the label.

[Damien]

Thanks for that.

I guess now, I can stop hoarding it and keep drinking it.

[camduncan]

Some updated info on Downunder availability...

Knob Creek is definately disapearing from our shelves. It's been replaced by the "Jim Beam Small Batch with Port added" line.

I've noticed a few retailers bumping the price of their remaining KC stocks - shops that used to sell it for $55 are now marking it at up to $80 per bottle (on par with their Bookers retail price)

The Old Rip Van Winkle 12yo (Lot B?) and Pappy 15yo did make it to the Australian retailer. It's selling for $110 & $140 respectively. Stocks are definately limited, and well worth the price

The sad news is they can't get any more ORVW 13yo Rye. The retailer advised it isn't being made any more (which I'm sure is incorrect - I thought Ken or Julian posted that the stock was just being spread exteremely thin to enter new US markets at the moment?)

Elijah Craig 18yo is still absent from our shelves despite the Heaven Hill New Zealand Distributor saying we'd see it in Australia very early in 2005. Of course the Elijah Craig 12yo and Evan Williams 94 Single Barrel are still in plentiful supply, and at $49 & $45 respectively, they represent probably the best bourbon bargains currently available in mass supplies Downunder (in my opinion )

The best news of all is that Blantons seems to have found a national retailer The bad news is that they don't seem to be actively pushing it into the market as yet. I'll post more after I speak to the distributor again next week.

[Ken Weber]

Cam,

The VW 13 is gone, but there is the VW 12. Also, we are diligently working to get Buffalo Trace to you. We are getting close.

Ken

[camduncan]

That's a shame - the ORVW 13yo Rye is one of my favourite drinks - I'll have to slow down on the 2/3 of a bottle I have left...

BT Downunder, now that is good news

[camduncan]

Cam,

The VW 13 is gone, but there is the VW 12. Also, we are diligently working to get Buffalo Trace to you. We are getting close.

Ken

Ken, have there been any further developments getting BT Downunder? I'm sure it's a complex process to enter a new market....are we talking weeks / months / years before this becomes a reality?

[Ken Weber]

Australia is driving me nuttier than some of the control states we have here!! Since Buffalo Trace is 90 proof, our price is going to be much higher than JD, unless we can figure something out. We do not want to lower the proof (and change the taste) just to be able to hit a price point. Sometimes marketing drives decisions, but we are trying to make sure that never happens to our bourbons.

We are still evaluating our options and I will let you know as soon as we decide on something.

Ken

[bluesbassdad]

Ken,

Would your marketing guys consider a campaign along the lines of, "If you must add water . . ."? Or "We supply the bourbon; you supply the water"? Or "We thought about adding more water, but the bottle would have been too big." The point would be to get the consumer to think about the implications of various proofs on value of the product.

As an introduction you could even create a holiday-style package that includes a tiny Erlenmeyer flask to measure the water.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[camduncan]

Ken,

That'd be a fantastic price point, and it's definately one that would place BT within the budget of the average Aussie bourbon drinker...

To put it in perspective with other products in our market

-Jim Beam White $27-$30

Jim Beam Black $35

Jack Daniels $35

Buffalo Trace $35 ??

Bulleit & Elijah Craig 12yo $45

Evan Williams Single Barrel $50

Gentleman Jack $50

It's interesting to do the same comparison from the US -

Jim Beam White $12.99

Jim Beam Black $18.99

Jack Daniels $19.99

Buffalo Trace $ 24.99

Bulleit $24.99

Elijah Craig 12yo $12.99

Evan Williams Single Barrel $24.99

Gentleman Jack $22.99

Personally, I'd be happy to make BT my everyday pour. But as a general rule, I don't like to go over $40-$45 AU to do this.

[Ken Weber]

Your price comparison illustrates one of the problems we are facing. Jack Daniel's is 4 years old and 80 proof; we are 9 - 11 years old and 90 proof. Assuming margins are the same, what is the intuitive shelf price for BT? Since the tax in Australia goes up with the proof, our margin would be wiped out if we tried to match price with them. Some other bourbons have maintained margin by decreasing proof (I believe Jim Beam is 76 proof). Bulleit is about 8 years old and is priced at $45. Gentleman Jack is $50, yet it is about 5 - 6 years old. WIth whom do we compete? Do we want to enter a market where we will never be more than a niche player? Do we start compromising the quality and proof of our product?

We will figure it out, however, it may take us a little time.

Ken

[Ken Weber]

You raise an interesting point. We will have to convince consumers of bourbon that we are different from many of the other players. We can't say we are better, because that is such a subjective call. We will have to do so at the grassroots level. It will be a long, slow education process.

Ken

[pete_d]

Well Ken, If you can get BT and any associated brands down under. I will definitely do my part to make the importing worthwhile.

I'd be quite happy to make it my daily pour below $50. At the moment Elijah Craig and EWSB get the daily guernsey.

In Australia there is a definite perception that bourbon is a cheap/inferior drink in the whiskey category. You'd do better appealing upmarket or trendy drinkers who have been leaning toward scotch (Johnny Walker Black and Glenlivet does very well around here.)

Have you spoken to any importers at this stage?

[camduncan]

Maybe (much as I hate to say it) the age of BT is 'the' selling point in our market? Most of our bourbons don't carry obvious age statements. Elijah Craig 12yo does, but as it is only available through the one retail chain, it isn't as well known.

An interesting question would be how well has Bulleit done at its price point of $45. It would also be iteresting to compare to Evan Williams SB and Elijah Craig.

Ken, out of interest, are you able to sound us out on potential market pricing? I guess Talica, Pete_D and I are slight exceptions to the normal bourbon market (our prescence here on the forum and our willingness to go out on a limb for a 'rare' purchase probably shows this?) I know I'd happily conduct a BT tasting at home with friends who are regular bourbon drinkers to see what they think and what sort of price they'd be willing to pay.

[Ken Weber]

I appreciate your input and am using it to formulate a position in the market. While we want to make money, we do not want to price ourselves out of the market. Our pricing philosophy in the U.S. has been to deliver high quality at an affordable price. We will try to maintain that down under, however, the tax structures are killing us. I will let you know what we intend to do as soon as we map this thing out.

Ken

[camduncan]

Found and sampled on the weekend - Fighting Cock & Cola cans

An interesting find considering Fighting Cock isn't available in bottles anywhere in the country at the moment(that I am aware of.)

[Tallica]

Cam I have often seen Fighting Cock on the shelves IN S.A.

Another new so called bourbon, bulk shipped & bottled Down Under is SLate, imported by Diageo from Slate distilling company in Chicago?

This one comes in at the usual low proof of 74.

I believe its aimed at the first call market ie. bourbon & coke in bars.

[camduncan]

I have often seen Fighting Cock on the shelves IN S.A.

That's interesting... Is it sold by Theos?

I was told by Heaven Hill NZ that it was sold exclusively through Theos, but because we don't have them in Queensland i've never been able to verify it.

Maybe it's time for a drive to New South Wales

[CrispyCritter]

...Slate, imported by Diageo from Slate distilling company in Chicago?

This one comes in at the usual low proof of 74.

Odd - I've never heard of it, and I live near Chicago. Google is no help, either. At 74 proof, it isn't even legally whiskey.

[TNbourbon]

It can't be called 'bourbon' in the U.S. and any signatories of trade agreements with the U.S. at 74 proof, but any country that doesn't have such an agreement with us can allow anything they want to be called 'bourbon'.

It ain't, of course.

[pete_d]

sold by Theo's you say?

I might check it out tomorrow if I get a chance. I haven't seen the stuff for about 2 years. I wouldn'd mind trying a higher-proof HH product, since I adore EC12 so much.

[camduncan]

I don't know what agreements we do or don't have with the US....but we have a few different bourbons I can think of at under 40% - usually 37% - Jim Beam White label, Jim Beam Rye, Beams Choice, Cougar Bourbon, Old Crow to name the ones I can think of

As I understand it, they are all bottled Downunder and as such don't have to be 40%

[Tallica]

Never been to a Theos. none in S.A. as far as I know.

To be honest I have not taken much notice where I have seen it, as I do not have much interest in the numerous low proof Bourbons! that are bulk shipped & bottled here.

Will let you know next time I run across one, but I think I have seen them at BWS( Beer, Wine & Spirits)

[Tallica]

Odd - I've never heard of it, and I live near Chicago. Google is no help, either. At 74 proof, it isn't even legally whiskey.