ORVW 23 Year Old 114 Proof

[whskylvr]

Scott (callmeox) that was for those who want to buy it but haven't made thae leap. The ones who say no not right now, maybe later on.

Sorry I did not intend it for those who think its to expensive.

My apologises!

[Old Lamplighter]

and I think having something like that in my closet could help me take fewer risks in life, while driving, while crossing the street, etc.

Very interesting angle that had not inhabited a corner of my shrinking mind as of yet.....will have to use that one on the spouse when I get that 'look' and the inevitable comment(s) which follow: "why are you buying more?...at your pace, it will take years for you to drink it all......it better take years or you'll find yourself here alone"....da-da-da-da-da...etc., etc. Well, of course with Pappy, I would never truly be all alone!

BTW, thanks to all for the stats on the bottling.....figured it took away several barrels from Julian's inventory. Wonder if he will ever do any more of the like?

[dgonano]

Haven't opened the decanter as of now. Still enjoying one of the the KBS 23 yr Pappy bottlings from a few years ago.

[sku]

Old Rip Van Winkle 23yr, 114 proof – tasted in an ORVW Glencairn Glass:

Nose:

Lots of Caramels and cream. What a GREAT nose. This has all of the characteristics of the classic VVOFs with a more complete body to it.

As this juice opens up fully there are caramel candied Washington red delicious apple notes and a vanilla sweetness with a blend of light cotton & linen aromas.

The oak in this is mysterious. As the oak begins to come out waves of intense caramel cream push it back into perfect balance.

Not a touch of alc in this nose.

Taste:

Vanilla cream with just the perfect touches of oak on this Juice right out a pour.

The caramel red delicious apples from the nose come through after this sits a few min (~5) and just set your mouth into frenzy.

Finish:

The finish starts with memories of buttery vanilla caramel desserts and then those rich tastes of oak and butter just race across you mouth. There is an oily characteristic here that is lost on bourbons today.

Like the nose and the taste, a distinct caramel red delicious apple flavor stands out with a touch of Oak. The oak in this is in perfect balance with the oils and buttery vanilla caramel.

Overall:

It has to be the unfiltered higher proof that takes the standard PVW 23 to the woodshed and leaves it there. This is truly a great bourbon that does the Van Winkle name justice.

This just became my favorite Van Winkle on my shelf. Incredible.

[Old Lamplighter]

Grabbing my wallet in like manner would put the house payment in jeopardy this month.....however.....hhmm....the heater works pretty good in my truck and I know a guy with a double-wide down near the river.....

[tigerlam92]

Since Van Winkle is my Bourbon of choice, I had to pick one up as well. The presentation and the packaging is extremely nice. Couldn't get myself to getting 2 or 3. This one is going to be on the shelf for a special day.

[Odiedog52]

Just bought my first bottle of bourbon .. And it was one of these! Haha. Just posted up all about me in the "new guy" forum.

No plans on drinking this one for a likely long while until I can appreciate it. One question though .. How would something like this increase in value? Just curious as to the investment standpoint of buying one of these and sitting on it for 20 years and what it would be worth. Then again, if i did do that, by then I'd probably just open it and enjoy it haha.

[WsmataU]

Just bought my first bottle of bourbon .. And it was one of these! Haha. Just posted up all about me in the "new guy" forum.

No plans on drinking this one for a likely long while until I can appreciate it. One question though .. How would something like this increase in value? Just curious as to the investment standpoint of buying one of these and sitting on it for 20 years and what it would be worth. Then again, if i did do that, by then I'd probably just open it and enjoy it haha.

If you are looking at this as an investment for monetary profit, this is a poor business practice. There are alot better ways to invest your money. That said, this may be a decent investment as a tradable bottle in the future. The only bottles that really seem to increase in value are when there is a major shift (distillery closes, tax law changes, etc.). This board tends to frown on Ebay sellers that are just looking to turn a buck. You can find examples of this bottle on Ebay for $1000 now. Here people tend to enjoy the bourbon, but several of us do like to collect and trade.

[Odiedog52]

Thanks for the advice. I could see myself buying another one to hold for

20 years .. But by that point, I don't think I could let it go! But thanks for the heads up, I was jut curious to how these appreciate in value. And I agree on people frowning upon reselling on eBay .. It's the same way over in the craft beer world, where I spend WAY too much money actively trading people.

Either way, my bottle just came in and my parents couldn't believe how gorgeous and amazing everything looked. I've yet to see it in person and unforunately won't get to for another 6 months, but I can't wait to.

[cowdery]

Wsmatau told the truth and took too much back with his other hand. Investment value is zero. I'm not saying there is no secondary market but it's very difficult to tap and trying to sell collectible spirits is more like shooting craps than it is like investing. The starting price for this is so high already that something of a sea change variety would have to happen for people to start reliably paying that kind of money for American whiskey. The best advice is put that idea out of your head, then put the idea of that idea out of your head too. Bourbon futures are worse than a sucker's game. They're no game at all.

Because of your craft beer experience, you know more than most. You're probably working within a community of sorts there and if the same sort of community were to develop among whiskey collectors it might be possible to create a functioning secondary market, but I don't believe it exists now.

My only caveat is that because of the legality issues, any marketplace in collectible alcohol must inevitably be on the down low. Since I'm, personally, not very interested in it, it could easily exist without me knowing about it.

Allegedly, that guy who was busted in Tennessee a few years ago was facilitating just such an international marketplace in JD collectibles, although that particular charge never was prosecuted.

[Lost Pollito]

Wsmatau told the truth and took too much back with his other hand.

[cowdery]

Gee, sorry. I didn't know Wsmatau is a female name.

Holding bottles for an investment might be predatory in theory but it's stupid in practice. On the other hand, I'm not offended at all by the idea that someone puts a value on a bottle that to them makes it too valuable to drink. Just because I don't roll that way doesn't make it wrong (legal issues aside).

[Lost Pollito]

Well the offense comes in the form of $$$ on the hirsch 16, and btac's. I feel they should be available at an affordable price not set by profiteres. I find flipping bottles to be predatory, but it's just my opinion.

[DeanSheen]

Well the offense comes in the form of $$$ on the hirsch 16, and btac's. I feel they should be available at an affordable price not set by profiteres. I find flipping bottles to be predatory, but it's just my opinion.

Well it is predatory. But the bigger question remains why Ebay can skirt the law?

[Joshua]

I also hate to say it, but there's always the small chance of something going "American Spirit" on you. I've seen that bottle (WTAS) personally for $130 (not even the highest price out there by far), then $60, then $80, and and now I hear of people snagging them for $30 or some such thing. Although realistically I doubt this will happen with the ORVW23.

My take on "investment" bottles (please read all the following before thinking about it) is that they are a great idea. I have a few that are prized and I consider an investment. The INVESTMENT though is both emotional and monetary. If I like bottle of JoeJangles Ultra-Whiskey, and I pay $200 for it now... 20 years from now I'm pretty damn sure it's going to be more then $200 for the same bottle. So in 20 years, I've got this bottle that I've held onto and have emotional investment and memories in... as well as knowing the "current version" of it will most likely not taste anything at all like it and be more expensive.

I have to say, I like the comment about "Then again, if i did do that, by then I'd probably just open it and enjoy it haha." I like that mode of thinking! Don't take peoples comments about the "value" thing as an attack on you since from how you stated the question it just seemed to be a curiosity thing. There have been folks on here for the sake of making a quick buck instead of for the enjoyment of bourbon. It's a pretty big bummer!

I'm really excited to hear what you think of the ORVW23 when you finally open it!

[Odiedog52]

I didn't take anything an attack, so no worries there.

I won't be opening this one for a while, I need to start from the bottom and work my way up until I'm ready to really enjoy it and appreciate it for what it is.. But when I do, I'll be sure to post up what I think. There is already an emotional value to this bottle as it's exactly as old as I am (give or take a week or two, I'd love to know the exact date), which is really cool and I think I'd to buy another bottle because of that to enjoy when I'm old.

So hopefully I didn't offend any of you, it was just my curiosity running rampant and nothing more

[OscarV]

Speaking of eBay and investing, etc.

In 2006 Buffalo Trace released the first of it's Experimental Collection.

I think they retailed at $50.00 per 375ml bottle, it was a 3 bottle set.

Someone has a set on eBay right now, asking $1,650.00 plus $25.00 shipping.

I got a set of them back in '06 and still haven't opened them.

I have no interest is selling them, I keep telling myself that I am going to drink them when the "time" comes.

I have a lot of bottles that have increased in value but again, I have no interest in selling them and when I see these high prices it doesn't do anything for me.

I do intend on drinking everything I have but you never know what the future brings.

So I have been informing my wife of the eBay and collecting value and she suggested that I put a sticker with a max/min price on the bottom of each bottle for her to sell if I don't make it to the last bottle.

Now the idea of her cashing in and raking in the big bucks on my bottles after I pass away makes me happy.

[callmeox]

I never buy any bottle thinking that I will turn a profit on it by selling it and I don't condone nor do I participate in illegal sales on eBay but

(there's always a but)

...there is certainly a chance that totally unsolicited stupid money will come along, making the "Not For Sale" position difficult to hold.

(no further details needed)

[WsmataU]

Gee, sorry. I didn't know Wsmatau is a female name.

Holding bottles for an investment might be predatory in theory but it's stupid in practice. On the other hand, I'm not offended at all by the idea that someone puts a value on a bottle that to them makes it too valuable to drink. Just because I don't roll that way doesn't make it wrong (legal issues aside).

As usual, Chuck is right...lol. My name is Frank and I have bourbonitis. I've been living with the disease for a couple years now (thanks to this forum).:slappin:

I think the predatory comments are off the mark. I have bought bottles before with no intention of drinking them, but in the hopes of trading them for something equally exclusive that I DO like. Ebayers do drive the prices up, but you can't resent them for your own common sense (refusing to pay ridiculous prices).

Old proverbs come to mind....When a man with money meets a man with experience the man that was experienced leaves the encounter with the money and the man that had the money leaves with the experience!:cool:

[sailor22]

I think what some ebay bashers overlook is that for a lot of people it is virtually the only source of hard to find Bourbon. A lot of states have no ship laws and on line retailers don't ship there, local shops have meager selections, regional distribution is not interested in "exotic" Bourbons etc. If you live in a location like Chicago, Louisville, Indiana etc that has good selection you are lucky. But remember Indiana and Kentucky don't allow retailers to ship and even Binny's can't ship to every state in the union.

When driving to Louisville or Chicago isn't an option and you are in a state retailers won't ship to A person trying to find an uncommon (for their location) bottle may be forced to turn to the "collector" market. I don't begrudge them that at all.

If ebay ever stops the sale of collector bottles that coincidently contain Bourbon then people who hoard BTAC , Pappy Juic etc for future sale will be in a world of hurt. So there is a major risk on that side for them.

To me it feels like e-commerce has opened up the eyes of a lot of people in the whiskey business. It is making clear that the old three tier distribution system is outdated and in control states it is proving that control may be impossible in the future. I know my local guys are just now becoming aware of how much good juice from smaller labels their distributors don't make available to them. Assuming this is being played out all across the US it can only be good for consumers and manufacturers.

[callmeox]

If ebay ever stops the sale of collector bottles that coincidently contain Bourbon then people who hoard BTAC , Pappy Juic etc for future sale will be in a world of hurt. So there is a major risk on that side for them.

There is no such thing.

[sailor22]

A polite fiction delivered with a wink and a nod..... haven't figured out how to wink and nod in a post yet.

[cowdery]

Somebody asked how eBay "gets away with it." The answer is that neither the ATF nor any state ABC has been inclined to make a case against them or any of the buyers and sellers who use the service.

It's still illegal and both the service and the participants could be prosecuted at any time.

eBay has their disclaimer, which I consider barely a fig leaf, with no legal significance whatsoever.

Part of the reason nobody is going after them (at least this is what I would argue) is that the laws that make sales without a license illegal were never intended to prevent these types of transactions. It's also small beer when there are multi-million dollar moonshine operations out there. (Read Max Watman's, Chasing the White Dog.)

[OscarV]

I think what some ebay bashers overlook is that for a lot of people it is virtually the only source of hard to find Bourbon.

Agreed, I have no problem with eBay.

It's a very good service that hooks up a seller and a buyer who would have never met each other if eBay did not exist.

Also eBay saves me money and time, I have not had to drive to KY, Chi-Town and other parts of the country for bottles I want and can't get in MI.

[SMOWK]

I've personally never bought any alcohol from anyone on eBay. If only because I've never found anything that was worth it. I live in an area that seems to have a pretty good selection compared to a lot of places.

I'm guessing the reason the prices are unusually high on eBay is the fact that it's illegal. The thought is always there that the ATF is going to come bash down your door and not so much arrest you, but possibly take your bunker with them.

Seeing ORVW114 on eBay for $1000 is pretty laughable. Although, as a seller, you can probably guarantee that someone, somewhere, will fork it over.