ORVW 23 Year Old 114 Proof

[ErichPryde]

Regarding A.H. Hirsch and ebay- As I understand it, the actual owners of what's left of all the gold foil hirsch keep raising the price as the whiskey becomes less and less available. When I see it at "normal" retail for 267.99 plus tax, It comes as very little surprise to see it at the same price and sometimes a bit higher on ebay.

As for the BTAC's, that is, at least in part, supply and demand. Some places got little if any George T. Stagg, and if Jimmy Hoffa had a bottle last year and loved it and can't live without it, he's that much more likely to buy it on ebay for 150+. The demand is relatively high and the supply is comparably tiny, or it wouldn't sell for those prices. Does that make it right?

[Lost Pollito]

Does that make it right?

[ErichPryde]

probably not. but who are you going to stop? Jimmy Hoffa, or the seller? This whole situation brings up a lot of interesting questions. George T. Stagg seems to sell, at retail, from between 47 and 90. Wild Turkey sells a similarly aged whiskey (tradition) for 90-120. Four roses mariage and 40th anniversary were also at the top of the BTAC range. so if Jimmy Hoffa does end up purchasing a bottle of GTS on ebay for 120-150, did he really get ripped off, really? If it wasn't available to him locally and he didn't know anyone on this forum to help him out, is that unreasonable?

Ultimately, it is... and I don't want Buffalo Trace to get any ideas- if their BTAC retailed at 120 bucks, I'd leave it sitting on the shelf, just like I still see Parker's 27 year old and some of the other 100+ bottles of bourbon laying around. but GTS is relatively inexpensive compared to some of its competitors.

[Old Lamplighter]

Speaking of e#@y and the subject of this thread, i've heard that it has been listed there at $500+......anyone know if a set has really sold for that much or even more outlandish amount?

[callmeox]

probably not. but who are you going to stop? Jimmy Hoffa, or the seller?

Pick one side or the other, nail a couple of folks and watch the volume drop.

Actually, it will only take someone like the AG in NY to sue eBay for being the conduit and it will stop pretty quickly, IMO.

[ThomasH]

I have bought numerous bottles on ebay and have never had a problem! It saves time and travel. I don't see why it is such an issue. The tax on these old bottles were paid when they were purchased years ago!

Thomas

[cowdery]

I have bought numerous bottles on ebay and have never had a problem! It saves time and travel. I don't see why it is such an issue. The tax on these old bottles were paid when they were purchased years ago!

Thomas

I don't know that it is "such an issue," since there is no enforcement. The discussion is essentially academic, none of which changes the letter of the law. It is against the law--and potentially a felony (or several)--to sell alcohol without a license. Period. That's the whole story. Rationales such as that, and others, are simply beside the point. It's why we're discouraged from discussing specific auctions and transactions on this board, since anything that could be construed as facilitation could give SB.com a problem. That's why, when the subject comes up, many of us try to do the opposite of facilitation, which is to inform people about the legal facts. The people who seem to resist accepting that those are the facts are the ones who puzzle me.

[p_elliott]

So is it illegal for Joe Blow to pick up a bottle of XXX for me at the liquor store and I pay him back exactly what he paid for it no more no less?

[callmeox]

AFAIK there are no lawyers from Iowa on SB, so I'm not sure if you can get the answer that you seek.

If you have specific questions, consult your state liquor control authority. The answer that you get may differ from state to state.

[doubleblank]

Scott's right as the laws vary all over the map......(why am I contributing to a serious case of thread drift?) In Texas, its unlawful to solicit or accept an order for liquor...ie, your buddy calls you and asks you to grab him a fifth of Turkey and he'll repay you.

We can only "import" a quart of distilled spirits into Texas when we come and go. Not just international, but across state lines. For example, if someone with a large bourbobunker and wine cellar were moving to Texas, he can transport/import his entire 3000 bottle wine collection with no problems and no taxes. But he'll have to pay taxes and admin fees on each bottle of liquor. The taxes are low....about $1.50 per bottle all in. Beer is limited to one case of 12 ounce cans.

The laws in dry counties can be even stranger. Possession of more than 1 quart of liquor can be considered prima facie evidence of "intent to distribute". So I know when I make my road trips to KY, I'm probably breaking numerous state and county laws. And that's before I start breaking the laws in Arkansas, Tennessee, etc.

Randy

[IowaJeff]

I'm an Iowa attorney but I certainly don't practice in the alcohol regulation field and don't profess to know more than anyone else. **Disclaimers - this is not legal advice, you are not my client, etc, etc.*** My understanding is that you can import liquor not to exceed 1 liter for personal consumption into the state. Or if you personally obtain liquor outside of the US, you can import 4 liters. Everything else must go through the state. Thus, as I understand it, you can buy and have shipped up to 1 liter from Binny's, or wherever.

As far as Ebay, it is clearly illegal to sell liquor there without a license (at least in Iowa). As for buying, I don't know of any requirement that a purchaser must check whether the seller has a license or not. The seller is most likely violating the law of their state, but the buyer, at least in Iowa, may be safe.

pelliot raises an interesting question. Selling without a license is clearly illegal. I think the Iowa law still uses the term bootlegger. I guess the question is whether you could argue that it was not a sale from the friend to Joe Blow and was instead a bailment or something of that nature.

[OscarV]

I'm an Iowa attorney

**Disclaimers - this is not legal advice, you are not my client, etc, etc.***

Yep, he's a lawyer:lol:

Who got the bill?

Just funnin' ya Jeff!:cool:

[Lost Pollito]

Seeing as how we're drifiting. On bottles currently available at retail, why shouldn't the retail price adjust to ebay prices? The thought of that reality forms my dislike of ebay. Dusties are different imo.

[cowdery]

So is it illegal for Joe Blow to pick up a bottle of XXX for me at the liquor store and I pay him back exactly what he paid for it no more no less?

Yes.

Illegal everywhere for the seller. Maybe for the the buyer, depending on state law.

[IowaJeff]

Yep, he's a lawyer:lol:

Who got the bill?

Just funnin' ya Jeff!:cool:

[callmeox]

I'm an Iowa attorney

Sheez, doesn't that beat all?

Let's try this again.

AFAIK, there are no porn starlets on SB willing to attend the gazebo...

[smokinjoe]

Sheez, doesn't that beat all?

Let's try this again.

AFAIK, there are no porn starlets on SB willing to attend the gazebo...

Well, Trippah. If they're here, I'm sure you'll stumble upon them. Or vise versa.

[jburlowski]

Sheez, doesn't that beat all?

Let's try this again.

AFAIK, there are no porn starlets on SB willing to attend the gazebo...

How ya doin', big fellow?:70358-devil:

[sku]

I did a side by side of the ORVW 23 and the Pappy 23 "C" series. The Old Rip blew the Pappy away. It was much more complex, more intense and generally better. I was actually pretty disappointed with the Pappy.

Here are the details: http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2010/03/whiskey-wednesday-battle-of-really.html

[MrAtomic]

Sku,

Thanks very much for your comparative review. It's interesting to read that you found significant differences between the PVW 23 and the ORVW 23. I've not tasted the "C" bottling of PVW 23, but have an "A" bottling, which frankly, doesn't inspire me to spend $350 on the Old Rip. Still, you and others seem very enthusiastic about the new version. Perhaps it's time to start selling off my old straight razors to fund the purchase of a bottle. Hmm . . . shipping will probably be another $50, as the package looks to be the size of a steamer trunk.

[Virus_Of_Life]

Thanks for getting this thread back on topic Sku and MrAtomic!!

Seriously guys, Randy hinted at it, let's try to keep things somewhat on topic. If everyone is so hot and heavy to discuss ebay start a thread and DO IT THERE! ... Actually, maybe I'll go ahead and do it.

[sku]

Hmm . . . shipping will probably be another $50, as the package looks to be the size of a steamer trunk.

Yeah, they charged me the rate for two bottles for shipping. The packaging actually bothers me more than anything. You get this beautiful, polished wood, leather lined box that has essentially no use once you've taken the Bourbon out of it. So you can either keep it around for decoration, though it's pretty sizeable, or toss it. It seems like such a waste of wood. I prefer my bottles to come in a brown paper bag, but I guess it's all part of the mystique.

[MrAtomic]

Sku,

Regarding the packaging, a few thoughts come to mind (and forgive me if these are so obvious they don't merit discussion): first, maybe it's to enhance the impact of ORVW as a gift. It's one thing to present someone -- perhaps a client without much interest in whiskey -- a bottle of bourbon, but quite another to hand them a beautifully finished, leather-lined coffin attesting to the value of the liquor inside.

I've never so much as seen an old bottle of VOF, but based on photos, I imagine the velvet-lined presentation cases were intended as gift sets that stood out among regular bottlings on a liquor store shelf. Maybe ORVW 23 plays off this old marketing? If so, it hardly seems necessary, as a $300+ price is probably enough to merit a separate display.

Or perhaps the box is intended as an attractive, long-term storage solution for the sort of ultra-premium whiskey that buyers keep for years, rather than consuming.

This discussion brings back a memory. My mother used to work at various NYC banks, and when times were good clients would give her bottles of scotch, Macallan 18, in particular. Another year, another bunch of Macallan wedged into the liquor cabinet. It seemed like the gift-givers knew little about whiskey, except that Macallan was expensive, and my mother didn't care one way or another, so she'd give the bottles away and drink her vodka.

[nblair]

You guys were right. I saw one the other day in Louisville and didn't blink for about 5 minutes, just daydreaming trying to scheme how I could get the money together to buy it. I want one BAD!

[DeanSheen]

You guys were right. I saw one the other day in Louisville and didn't blink for about 5 minutes, just daydreaming trying to scheme how I could get the money together to buy it. I want one BAD!