The French Spirits Forum- Cognac, Armagnac, Calvados

[Kpiz]

On 1/3/2016, 8:33:15, flahute said:

Working my way through this thread (not all the way through yet) because I'm intrigued by the possibilities of a good cognac or armagnac. I periodically read sku's reviews which are usually something interesting from K&L. Unfortunately, K&L won't ship here so I'm starting to look around to see what's available locally. Total Wine has a lot of Chateau de Laubade Armagnac of various vintages from the 70's into the 80's. Have any of you tried one of these vintage stated versions? 

I'm not going to be much help here, as I have not tried any of the Laubades. I've been tempted to try their vintage expressions as well, but given that I have access to the K&L exclusives (sorry I'm not trying to rub it in) and Sku didn't give favorable reviews to the Laubade XO and Laubade Extra, it's hard to take a chance on them.

[flahute]

1 hour ago, Kpiz said:

I'm not going to be much help here, as I have not tried any of the Laubades. I've been tempted to try their vintage expressions as well, but given that I have access to the K&L exclusives (sorry I'm not trying to rub it in) and Sku didn't give favorable reviews to the Laubade XO and Laubade Extra, it's hard to take a chance on them.

Sku's reviews are why I'm hesitant to pull the trigger blind on one of the vintage stated Laubades even though they may be very different. The K & L's sound pretty interesting!

[Kpiz]

Has anyone tried, or even heard of, the Berneroy 18 year old Calvados? I picked up a bottle but can't find any info about an 18 year expression from this producer.

[Jamie76]

Not sure where you found the Berneroy 18 for $24.99, but that is an very good price.  I pay around that much for the XO which I enjoy very much.

[Kpiz]

18 hours ago, Jamie76 said:

Not sure where you found the Berneroy 18 for $24.99, but that is an very good price.  I pay around that much for the XO which I enjoy very much.

Thanks for the info! I'm glad to hear you find the XO enjoyable; that gives me hope for the bottle I purchased. Of course it is still a bit of a mystery, since I'm unfamiliar with Berneroy and cannot find anything online about an 18-year expression. I e-mailed Berneroy for more information so hopefully will hear back from them soon.

[tanstaafl2]

Perhaps you already found this but there is a passing mention of it in this article.

Quote

"Usually the older vintages go to people for whom that year has a special meaning," Mitchell says. When people ask Mitchell for an entry-level Calvados, he often recommends either Lemorton Reserve, which sells for $39, or 18-year- old Berneroy, relatively cheap at $47.

"Berneroy is a negociant, not a producer," Mitchell says. "He buys Calvados from all over the region. It's not as expensive and it's not as designer. It's a good place to find out if you like Calvados at all."

A negociant is a company that buys the spirits and bottles under its own label. Basically an NDP. This suggests that while it is good it may not be anything extremely noteworthy.

K&L mentions a 25yo (out of stock) that they seemed fond of so maybe that bodes well for the 18yo.

Unfortunately I have no prior experience with it. Best thing to do is crack it open and let us know!

[Kpiz]

1 hour ago, tanstaafl2 said:

Perhaps you already found this but there is a passing mention of it in this article.

A negociant is a company that buys the spirits and bottles under its own label. Basically an NDP. This suggests that while it is good it may not be anything extremely noteworthy.

K&L mentions a 25yo (out of stock) that they seemed fond of so maybe that bodes well for the 18yo.

Unfortunately I have no prior experience with it. Best thing to do is crack it open and let us know!

Very helpful, thanks Bruce. Sounds as though Berneroy may be the Hennessy of Calvados, which for $25 I'm ok with. I have a 15yo Camut open that I can compare it to so I will open up this Berneroy 18 soon and report back!

[tanstaafl2]

I look forward to the comparison. I think I finished my last bottle of Calvados a while back which was just basic stuff for cocktails and have been working on a bottle of Laird's as my calvados replacement as needed in cocktails before I decide what to look for next.

[Kpiz]

I did the Berneroy 18 vs. Camut 15 (K&L exclusive) tonight

Berneroy 18 year old Calvados

The cork crumbled when I tried to open this so I had to decant it into another bottle. Nose is initially very sweet and fruity, almost offputtingly so. After a minute the sweetness fades and smells more like Armagnac with a bit of oak and spice. The taste is much drier than anticipated, with some apple notes and a bit of oak. The finish is medium length, slightly acidic and fruity. Overall pretty good and balanced. It's interesting in that it lacks the baked and overripe apple notes usually associated with older Calvados.

Adrien Camut 15 year old Calvados

Nose is sweet with big notes of baked apples and also some mustiness. The palate is very fruity, much like fruit cocktail, but quickly turns acidic, and that apple-y acidic note lasts through the finish, which is medium in length. The acidity is strong but almost refreshing, and invites another sip.

 

Overall these are very different brandies so I'm not sure I can pick a favorite. I enjoy them both a lot but in different ways. The Berneroy is balanced and very agreeable, and I like it more and more as I drink it. The Camut has the big, delicious, baked apple notes and an interesting acidity that gives it character. Given that the Berneroy was 1/5 the price of the Camut, however, it is definitely the value option. Bottom line, if you see the Berneroy 18yo for a reasonable price, I recommend picking it up.

[tanstaafl2]

Nice notes. Thanks for taking one for the team!

[NightCru]

It makes me sad when I see this thread falling farther and farther towards the bottom of the front page of this sub forum so I'm going to bump it since this is my favorite thread here.

 

I'm drinking a Pellehaut 14 year right now.  I love this bottle, a little rough around the edges but in such a good way.  There is no subtleness here.  This is a bourbon drinkers brandy.  For $50 I think this is a tremendous value.  

[tanstaafl2]

I have been neglecting this category a bit as well! But I recently picked up another admittedly expensive but excellent Jacky Navarre Vieille Reserve cognac, a blend of reportedly 40 to 50yo cognac's that has had nothing added to it, including water according to the producer, and  the Jacky Navarre Pineau des Charentes 30yo Tres Vieux which I still can't believe you can get for $70 (less than that since I got both on sale).

 

I still have a little of both left over (actually a lot of the PdC but you can never have too much!) so naturally I had to refresh my memory on both. Still as delightful as I had remembered. At 90 proof the cognac is an example of another excellent spirit at a lower but barrel proof that still has great richness and mouthfeel as well as a nice long finish.

[garbanzobean]

It's not exactly French, but the Villa Zarri 10yr I've currently got open is delicious.  It's right at that very fruity stage I like in similarly aged cognacs.  I'm really looking forward to trying the 21 I have cellared at a later date.  I typically only open one brandy at a time, so it will be awhile.  What to open next . . . Maybe Armagnac.  Maybe Calvados.

[NightCru]

1 hour ago, tanstaafl2 said:

I have been neglecting this category a bit as well! But I recently picked up another admittedly expensive but excellent Jacky Navarre Vieille Reserve cognac, a blend of reportedly 40 to 50yo cognac's that has had nothing added to it, including water according to the producer, and  the Jacky Navarre Pineau des Charentes 30yo Tres Vieux which I still can't believe you can get for $70 (less than that since I got both on sale).

 

I still have a little of both left over (actually a lot of the PdC but you can never have too much!) so naturally I had to refresh my memory on both. Still as delightful as I had remembered. At 90 proof the cognac is an example of another excellent spirit at a lower but barrel proof that still has great richness and mouthfeel as well as a nice long finish.

Both of those sound fantastic and that Jacky Navarre 30 year old really is an amazing value.  I guess that Vielle Reserve is a pretty good value too but it's a little harder for me to use the word value when it's over $200 a bottle but considering the usual prices of old Cognac it really is a good deal.

 

I bought a bottle of the 1986 Domaine Baraillon 30 year old recently and thought that was a great deal at $80.  It really is amazing the quality you can get for very reasonable prices in the brandy world these days.  I've bought a lot of whiskey (usually craft whisky) that underwhelms for the price but that rarely ever happens to me with brandy.

[tanstaafl2]

2 hours ago, NightCru said:

Both of those sound fantastic and that Jacky Navarre 30 year old really is an amazing value.  I guess that Vielle Reserve is a pretty good value too but it's a little harder for me to use the word value when it's over $200 a bottle but considering the usual prices of old Cognac it really is a good deal.

 

I bought a bottle of the 1986 Domaine Baraillon 30 year old recently and thought that was a great deal at $80.  It really is amazing the quality you can get for very reasonable prices in the brandy world these days.  I've bought a lot of whiskey (usually craft whisky) that underwhelms for the price but that rarely ever happens to me with brandy.

Pineau des Charentes is something of an acquired taste as it is very sweet (as one would expect from a mixture of cognac and essentially grape juice).  But this bottle is for me very unique and as you say hard to believe that it costs $70 or less after 30 years (36 years for the cognac as it starts out at 6yo to begin with before being blended and aged an additional 30 years).

[Kpiz]

2 hours ago, garbanzobean said:

It's not exactly French, but the Villa Zarri 10yr I've currently got open is delicious.  It's right at that very fruity stage I like in similarly aged cognacs.  I'm really looking forward to trying the 21 I have cellared at a later date.  I typically only open one brandy at a time, so it will be awhile.  What to open next . . . Maybe Armagnac.  Maybe Calvados.

You're in for a treat with the VZ21. It was my favorite among the brandies that K&L was pouring at their BrandyFest last summer: http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2015/8/21/brandyfest-action.html

 

I'm glad to hear the 10 is good as well, I just purchased a bottle recently but haven't opened it quite yet.

[NightCru]

I was tasting a few brandies tonight for the blog I started that no one reads (does that make it more of a journal than a blog?) but hey, it keeps me entertained and gives me a reason to really contemplate what I'm drinking which is really why I like doing it and was the purpose of the whole thing.  Anyway, I sat around for a while with a pour of the Jacques Esteve Coup de Coeur Cognac.  K&L says this is a blend of 1979 and 1981 vintages, it was $90.  This was a steal for the price.  This is everything I love about a good Cognac.  Admittedly, I haven'd had a ton of good Cognac, and nothing from the big houses so I may not be the best judge but to my palate this was really lovely.  It had the fruit and floral elements but backed it up with substance.  It tasted mature, well rounded and well integrated.  I had tried this when I first got the bottle and liked it but spending some time thinking about it as I drank through some tonight it really hit me just how special this one is.

[Harry in WashDC]

Give us time, AK.  We'll catch up.  BTW, do your reviews  cover whether these are readily available?  For awhile, I made lists from SB posts, but many of the stores around me (I'm talking Washington DC) are really hit and miss, and I don't know enough about cognac and Armagnac to avoid getting burned (I'm just a guy who can't say "No"). 

[NightCru]

10 hours ago, Harry in WashDC said:

Give us time, AK.  We'll catch up.  BTW, do your reviews  cover whether these are readily available?  For awhile, I made lists from SB posts, but many of the stores around me (I'm talking Washington DC) are really hit and miss, and I don't know enough about cognac and Armagnac to avoid getting burned (I'm just a guy who can't say "No"). 

Most of the bottles I have come from K&L.  I started buying from them when I lived in LA and now that I'm in the Midwest I continue to.  K&L ships to a lot of the country, at least the states that allow it and DC is on the list.  You pay more in shipping but it's offset by not having to pay sales tax on an out of state purchase and their prices are really good. A lot of the bottles I have are single barrels so it may be hard to get the same bottle but K&L brings in new barrels from the same producers every year so while it may be hard to get the same exact bottle at least something similar should be available.  They aren't always widely available but the top tier liquor stores in the country seem to buy from the same producers.  I know Astor Wines in New York gets a lot of similar bottles.

 

What have you had in the way of Cognac and Armagnac?  What have you liked about your favorites and what have you disliked?  There are a lot of people here who can help point you in the right direction.  

[garbanzobean]

Not to be all debbie downer or anything, but unless K&L has not updated their website recently, their distilled spirits shipping policy is as follows:

 

Spoiler

 Distilled spirits can only be shipped to California, Colorado, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Nebraska, Wisconsin and New Mexico.

 

[Kpiz]

49 minutes ago, garbanzobean said:

Not to be all debbie downer or anything, but unless K&L has not updated their website recently, their distilled spirits shipping policy is as follows:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 Distilled spirits can only be shipped to California, Colorado, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Nebraska, Wisconsin and New Mexico.

 

Or perhaps they did update their website recently. I live near a K&L so I don't make a habit of looking at their shipping policy, but I seem to recall there being more states on that list when I checked it a year or so ago. 

[garbanzobean]

15 minutes ago, Kpiz said:

Or perhaps they did update their website recently. I live near a K&L so I don't make a habit of looking at their shipping policy, but I seem to recall there being more states on that list when I checked it a year or so ago. 

You may be thinking of the alcoholic beverages list, which is above the list I quoted and more clearly visible.

Edited June 3, 2016 by garbanzobean

[tanstaafl2]

1 hour ago, garbanzobean said:

Not to be all debbie downer or anything, but unless K&L has not updated their website recently, their distilled spirits shipping policy is as follows:

 

  Hide contents

 Distilled spirits can only be shipped to California, Colorado, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Nebraska, Wisconsin and New Mexico.

 

Much more visible because I don't think I have ever found the list that is specific to distilled spirits (not that it matters very much as they won't ship anything to my state). But it helps because some of the states on this page listed as able to ship "alcoholic beverages" to really mean just wine only but not spirits.

 

http://www.klwines.com/Shipping/StateLegality

 

What page is the list you quoted found on?

[garbanzobean]

48 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

Much more visible because I don't think I have ever found the list that is specific to distilled spirits (not that it matters very much as they won't ship anything to my state). But it helps because some of the states on this page listed as able to ship "alcoholic beverages" to really mean just wine only but not spirits.

 

http://www.klwines.com/Shipping/StateLegality

 

What page is the list you quoted found on?

It is literally on this page.  It is the last sentence of the first paragraph under the heading "More Information."

[Kpiz]

10 minutes ago, garbanzobean said:

It is literally on this page.  It is the last sentence of the first paragraph under the heading "More Information."

You're right - I've always looked at the bigger list, thinking that it included all types of alcohol. That's too bad, no wonder there isn't more buzz here about K&L exclusive brandies.