Kpiz Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 20 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said: They do seem to be really busy with building their cognac/Armagnac portfolio lately! I am going to still try to work on keeping the bottle count down a bit. Not that I am doing too well so far! Just bought the Kilchoman Sauternes matured yesterday. I respect your attempts to reduce the number of bottles you have. I've been trying to to the same with equally mixed results. And yes, K&L's exclusive brandies are mainly the culprit...how can I say 'no' to vintage-stated armagnac at seemingly great prices from producers I've never heard of?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl2 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 10 minutes ago, Kpiz said: I respect your attempts to reduce the number of bottles you have. I've been trying to to the same with equally mixed results. And yes, K&L's exclusive brandies are mainly the culprit...how can I say 'no' to vintage-stated armagnac at seemingly great prices from producers I've never heard of?! Were I as close to the store as you it would no doubt be tough! Fortunately I have a fairly strong 2000+ mile barrier to keep my addiction at a minimum. Ok, maybe at a baseline level. Oh, who am I kidding! I am struggling just to keep it from getting worse by the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpiz Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 3 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said: Oh, who am I kidding! I am struggling just to keep it from getting worse by the day... I know how you feel. I picked up the '74 Jean-Bon and the '81 Cardinat - I'll save you some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caskstrength Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Calvados - can anybody advise on experiences with Adrien Camut, Victor Gontier or Roger Groult? These are the main guys in my neck of the woods. Cheers in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl2 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 9 hours ago, Caskstrength said: Calvados - can anybody advise on experiences with Adrien Camut, Victor Gontier or Roger Groult? These are the main guys in my neck of the woods. Cheers in advance. Camut gets some discussion in this thread. Kpiz mentioned a Groult at one point. Not sure if they are the same bottles you have access to in Oz though! Not familiar with Gontier. A regular whiskey (and brandy) blogger who is also an SB member has been focusing on brandy, including calvados, a good bit recently so you may want to search his blog. Sku's Recent Eats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpiz Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 16 hours ago, Caskstrength said: Calvados - can anybody advise on experiences with Adrien Camut, Victor Gontier or Roger Groult? These are the main guys in my neck of the woods. Cheers in advance. 6 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said: Camut gets some discussion in this thread. Kpiz mentioned a Groult at one point. Not sure if they are the same bottles you have access to in Oz though! Not familiar with Gontier. A regular whiskey (and brandy) blogger who is also an SB member has been focusing on brandy, including calvados, a good bit recently so you may want to search his blog. Sku's Recent Eats Camut is a highly respected producer - their calvados tend to be very refined with more of a baked apple thing going on than I've found in other producers' calvados. Their prices also tend to be higher than almost any other producer, so I don't buy a ton of it. Roger Groult makes great stuff too. The 8yo was the first bottle of calvados I ever bought and I enjoyed it very much. I'm not sure what your experience is with calvados or brandies in general but this was a good entry point for me and I'd recommend it if you're just starting down the calvados path. It has satisfying apple flavor and enough age to take off some of the rough edges that tend to deter whiskey drinkers from younger calvados (IMHO). They also have a 12yo standard release here but I have not tried it. I believe I tried Victor Gontier calvados in France but I'll have to check my notes. They're a domfrontais producer, which means (among other things) that they use at least 30% pears in their calvados. This tends to give it a bit of a pear skin type of quality, which can be really nice, but it really depends on how much pear they're using, how they distill it, age it, etc. This is a quality producer, however, and would be worth buying if their prices aren't too high. Let us know if there are specific bottles from these producers that you're debating between and we may be able to provide more help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caskstrength Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 On 11 January 2017 at 9:13 AM, Kpiz said: Let us know if there are specific bottles from these producers that you're debating between and we may be able to provide more help. Thanks for the detailed info! My question was mainly perceived quality of the producers, however it appears that all 3 are good. Bottles under consideration: - Adrien Camut Privilege 18 - Adrien Camut Reserve (is double the price of the 18) - Roger Groult Venerable - Roger Groult Doyen d'age (is 50% more) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpiz Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 5 hours ago, Caskstrength said: Thanks for the detailed info! My question was mainly perceived quality of the producers, however it appears that all 3 are good. Bottles under consideration: - Adrien Camut Privilege 18 - Adrien Camut Reserve (is double the price of the 18) - Roger Groult Venerable - Roger Groult Doyen d'age (is 50% more) Yes, all three are quality producers, though Camut and Groult are much better known (at least here in the states). Any of the bottles you listed should be excellent, but they are of different styles. Camut tends to be fuller and richer, whereas Groult tends to be drier and spicier. I'm making this generalization partially from experience and partially from reading reviews from people whose palates I trust (and whose palates seem to be somewhat similar to mine). From the list, I have only tried and can therefore only vouch for the Camut Privilege 18, which is great. As Bruce (tanstaafl2) pointed out, Sku has been focusing on brandy and he reviewed the Camut Privilege recently - if his notes sound good to you, it shouldn't disappoint. Also, Serge from Whiskyfun struggled a little with the Groult Venerable and downright didn't like the Groult 15yo (it sounds like he may have gotten a bad bottle?) so depending on your experience level with Calvados, you may want to start with Camut and then look towards the Groult if you want something a little different. Let us know what you decide and what you think when you try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailor22 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Looking forward to comparing these two different picks by different importers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpiz Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, sailor22 said: Looking forward to comparing these two different picks by different importers. Yum. Looking forward to hearing your notes. I came across the one on the left (I think) when scrolling through MoM's Armagnac selection. Also, interesting variation on the spelling of the Chateau name in the label on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 After reading a lot of Sku's Eats blog over the last couple nights (lots of fun, that) -- I dove in with some Calvados and American Apple Brandy. The former was Roger Groult 8 year Pays d' Auge; the latter was Germain Robert Apple brandy. I found both to be a massive upgrade on the Daron calvados I had tried earlier (which put a damper on my enthusiasm to try this spirit). As advised by some folks on Sku's FB page, and here on SB -- I found the Groult to be a bit more funky and approachable. The funk was very much a pleasant thing -- like my favorite ciders -- it simply takes you to the place and that time of year. For me it is an intensely pleasurable group of associations: fall leaves, mud, the huge variety and depth of apple-scents. It was one of the best drinking experiences I've ever had. The Germain Robert was great too -- but I found it to be wound a bit more tightly -- it is, to me, more cognac-like (oddly enough) than the Groult. Even though you can smell the apples on the bouquet quite powerfully, the flavors aren't as warm and the spice is not as blended with the sweet as smoothly. Having devoured all things Sku, I even finsihed the tasting with a Pineau De Charentes -- the only one I can get in my neck of the woods, by Hardy: L Coq D' Or -- I think that might be the one to start the tasting with next time. Not sure. But it was certainly a bird of a feather with the calvados. I look forward to finding more of these -- my guess is that there are better examples out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl2 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, Steve L said: Having devoured all things Sku, I even finsihed the tasting with a Pineau De Charentes -- the only one I can get in my neck of the woods, by Hardy: L Coq D' Or -- I think that might be the one to start the tasting with next time. Not sure. But it was certainly a bird of a feather with the calvados. I look forward to finding more of these -- my guess is that there are better examples out there... If you like Calvados and Pineau des Charentes then it sounds like you owe it to yourself to find some Pommeau de Normandie. Instead of grape juice blended with freshly distilled or slightly aged cognac you get apple juice blended with freshly distilled or lightly aged Calvados! Dupont is the brand of Pommeau I see locally most often although it would appear they have jazzed up the label recently. Vin de liqueur, or "mistelle" as they tend to be known if France, come from several different regions. Pommeau is the only one I know of off hand that is not grape based. But there are other grape based regional versions such as Ratafia from Champagne, Floc du Gascogne from Armagnac, Macvin from Jura and several others. I find the Ferrand Pineau pretty readily available here along with a couple of other brands. I even discovered an American made Ratafia style liqueur from California while visiting the boss last fall! Edited January 30, 2017 by tanstaafl2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said: If you like Calvados and Pineau des Charentes then it sounds like you owe it to yourself to find some Pommeau de Normandie. Instead of grape juice blended with freshly distilled or slightly aged cognac you get apple juice blended with freshly distilled or lightly aged Calvados! Dupont is the brand of Pommeau I see locally most often although it would appear they have jazzed up the label recently. Thanks for this tip -- this had been on my radar but the bottle I saw was done by craft-brewers Rhine Hall here in Chicago -- and I wasn't sure whether to dive in. Having searched for Pommeau on my trusty Binny's search, I see that they do in fact carry the DuPont. Also have a road trip that will put me within a subway ride of Astor Wines in NYC, who currently have the Drouin and Lemorton (they're out of stock on the Camut). Tempted...to try all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpiz Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Well I took a few days off of drinking due to some illness, but I'm back on the horse and off the wagon. Or something like that. Anyways, I decided to open up the K&L Exclusive Armagnacs from Domaine du Cardinat on Wednesday night and I've had had a little bit over the course of the past two nights. I should say that based on Sku's review, I picked up the 1992 and the 1981 vintages and skipped the 1987. The 1992 Cardinat has some maple syrup, medicinal, and spicy notes with an interesting bitterness in the finish. Lots of oak and tons of spice here along with some serious personality, I like this one a lot. The 1981 Cardinat looks viscous in the glass, and it is - really nice, thick mouthfeel is evident immediately. Sweetness hits first, which transitions to sweetness with spice and tobacco. The sweetness fades through the sip and this ends on an oaky note that eventually leaves me with a dry mouth (not in a bad way). I can see what Sku is saying about this being sweet, but the oak at the end makes me want to keep drinking this. I don't like this as much as the '92 (as in, I wouldn't reach for it as often), but it is very interesting and overall I really like the profile and the evolution of flavors over the course of the sip. Needless to say, I bought a backup bottle of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl2 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 14 minutes ago, Kpiz said: Well I took a few days off of drinking due to some illness, but I'm back on the horse and off the wagon. Or something like that. Anyways, I decided to open up the K&L Exclusive Armagnacs from Domaine du Cardinat on Wednesday night and I've had had a little bit over the course of the past two nights. I should say that based on Sku's review, I picked up the 1992 and the 1981 vintages and skipped the 1987. The 1992 Cardinat has some maple syrup, medicinal, and spicy notes with an interesting bitterness in the finish. Lots of oak and tons of spice here along with some serious personality, I like this one a lot. The 1981 Cardinat looks viscous in the glass, and it is - really nice, thick mouthfeel is evident immediately. Sweetness hits first, which transitions to sweetness with spice and tobacco. The sweetness fades through the sip and this ends on an oaky note that eventually leaves me with a dry mouth (not in a bad way). I can see what Sku is saying about this being sweet, but the oak at the end makes me want to keep drinking this. I don't like this as much as the '92 (as in, I wouldn't reach for it as often), but it is very interesting and overall I really like the profile and the evolution of flavors over the course of the sip. Needless to say, I bought a backup bottle of both. Yes, the 1992 sounds like the most intriguing of the bunch. 94 to 98 proof isn't bad compared to the more typical 80ish proof of many brandies but a shame that can't or won't bottle them at even just a little higher proof. Unless that is cask strength already of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpiz Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said: Yes, the 1992 sounds like the most intriguing of the bunch. 94 to 98 proof isn't bad compared to the more typical 80ish proof of many brandies but a shame that can't or won't bottle them at even just a little higher proof. Unless that is cask strength already of course. I'm wondering if they are at cask strength or close to it. I don't see "brut de fut" on the label but I think barrel-entry is 110-120 for most of these producers (you may know better than I do) and tends to fall from there. Also, given the response below that Sku got back from David OG when he inquired about color, I'm guessing they could have bottled at CS if they had chosen to. I'm not ruling out them opting not to bottle at CS, just seems like they would have, given that they apparently told them not to add boise or anything else. "The reason the other two are darker is not the use of boise or sugar, simply that the 87 vintage was very productive so they've got less of it in new oak. We sort of got the last of the 81 and so it very oaky and ultra concentrated because it's been oxidizing in half full barrel. The 92 just happened it be ultra Rich and powerful supposedly because there's more new oak/small vintage. The 87 is much more classic and typical Armagnac. More subtlety and elegance, mainly because they produced a ton and didn't use as much new oak compared to the over all volume. I specifically asked them not to use Boise or caramel in any of them and they were very distinct color differences right out of the cask." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl2 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Always possible although the proof seems to be a rather convenient round number (with 2 the same and the one that had a small harvest and limited available production being the one that is a little lower in proof) and I would have expected them to mention it as cask strength in their various blurbs about it on the website if it were. They are priced quite nicely but my lack of affinity for the '73 Papolle Armagnac has made me a bit gun shy especially with older vintages. Probably not a fair comparison but it is what it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpiz Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 29 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said: Always possible although the proof seems to be a rather convenient round number (with 2 the same and the one that had a small harvest and limited available production being the one that is a little lower in proof) and I would have expected them to mention it as cask strength in their various blurbs about it on the website if it were. They are priced quite nicely but my lack of affinity for the '73 Papolle Armagnac has made me a bit gun shy especially with older vintages. Probably not a fair comparison but it is what it is! Good point about the proof. They're allowed a small variance between labeled and actual proof, right? Maybe they rounded. Maybe...Ok, it is likely that they proofed these down at least a little bit, or they would have touted "cask strength" somewhere in the advertising like you said. An additional interesting note is that the older vintages are 98 proof while the newest one (1992) is 94 proof, which is the opposite of what I'd expect. Something else to consider that I just thought of... the producer may have been adding water to these casks for some time (years), slowly reducing proof over time as they get closer to being removed from cask (and either bottled or put in glass). I haven't actually heard about this occurring in Armagnac production, but I know some Calvados producers do it. I'm also not sure how they determine when to add water or how much. If that's the case here, it explains how these may have been bottled straight from the cask and why K&L would shy away from calling them "cask strength". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl2 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kpiz said: Good point about the proof. They're allowed a small variance between labeled and actual proof, right? Maybe they rounded. Maybe...Ok, it is likely that they proofed these down at least a little bit, or they would have touted "cask strength" somewhere in the advertising like you said. An additional interesting note is that the older vintages are 98 proof while the newest one (1992) is 94 proof, which is the opposite of what I'd expect. Something else to consider that I just thought of... the producer may have been adding water to these casks for some time (years), slowly reducing proof over time as they get closer to being removed from cask (and either bottled or put in glass). I haven't actually heard about this occurring in Armagnac production, but I know some Calvados producers do it. I'm also not sure how they determine when to add water or how much. If that's the case here, it explains how these may have been bottled straight from the cask and why K&L would shy away from calling them "cask strength". I suppose that is possible. Wasn't aware it was a technique used with calvados or Armagnac. I suppose if they are losing a lot of water over time in storage anyway you might want to add some back to keep the proof from getting really high over time and maintain some of the volume in the barrel. Better than a bunch of water added all at once at the end I suppose! Makes me think of the Gourry de Chadville (although a cognac, not an Armagnac) which was eventually bottled in the 60+ proof range, so I presume those spirits could get to be quite high in proof depending on where and how they are aged. Edited February 3, 2017 by tanstaafl2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpiz Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said: I suppose that is possible. Wasn't aware it was a technique used with calvados or Armagnac. I suppose if they are loosing a lot of water over time in storage anyway you might want to add some back to keep the proof from getting really high over time and maintain some of the volume in the barrel. Better than a bunch of water added all at once at the end I suppose! Makes me think of the Gourry de Chadville (although a cognac, not an Armagnac) which was eventually bottled in the 60+ proof range, so I presume those spirits could get to be quite high in proof depending on where and how they are aged. I should probably fact check my assertion. I know at least a few Calvados producers practice the long-term proofing-down method because I read it in Charles Neal's book. I'm not sure how common it is or if it exists in the other brandy-producing regions. There is a belief that adding too much water at one time will sort of 'shock' the spirit and produce unwanted flavors. I'm not sure how true that is, but there are certainly real benefits of this more time-consuming method; as you insinuated, it will result in more flavor because the water is being barrel-aged. It should also result in a sweeter spirit, since the lower proof will extract more sugars from the wood. Ah yes, that Chadville was very high proof! Interesting case study indeed. My records indicate that the bottle I have is 64.3% ABV. My guess is that they left those barrels alone once they filled them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Finishing off this bottle (well...it looks like this bottle) of Pineau des Charentes tonight. It has grown on me every time I sit down with it. Nutty, sweet, just enough funk. Flavors of apricots, orange zest, and brown sugar...nice and viscous. It's almost like a Sauternes. (For which, I have always been a fool.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpiz Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Having my first small pour from a bottle of Jacoulot l'Authentique Marc de Bourgogne. Sku's review (http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2016/12/jacoulot-marc-de-bourgogne.html) convinced me to buy it...a "fabulously bizarre spirit experience" sounded too good to pass up! It smells like a young rhum agricole, sweet but funky and grassy with golden raisins. The taste is immediately full of spices, which develop into honey sweetness, those golden raisins again, and it finishes on a mulled mead-like note with some cocoa powder. This is really cool stuff. I'm excited to work my way through this bottle so I can try to identify more flavors in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl2 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 10 hours ago, Kpiz said: Having my first small pour from a bottle of Jacoulot l'Authentique Marc de Bourgogne. Sku's review (http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2016/12/jacoulot-marc-de-bourgogne.html) convinced me to buy it...a "fabulously bizarre spirit experience" sounded too good to pass up! It smells like a young rhum agricole, sweet but funky and grassy with golden raisins. The taste is immediately full of spices, which develop into honey sweetness, those golden raisins again, and it finishes on a mulled mead-like note with some cocoa powder. This is really cool stuff. I'm excited to work my way through this bottle so I can try to identify more flavors in it. Well, that's encouraging! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpiz Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said: Well, that's encouraging! Yes indeed! I found it both unusual and enjoyable. Not an every day type of pour, but it should satisfy when I'm looking for something weird. I didn't pick up any of the real peculiar notes that sku did (e.g. rotting garbage) but maybe the bottle just needs to breathe a little. It makes me wonder what American wine makers do with their wine dregs. There's a lot of pinot noir produced on the west coast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Sounds very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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