Pappy and the hunt...is it worth it?

[loki993]

Please don't skewer me for asking about it..I know some people people seem to be sensitive about questions regarding pappy. Im just getting into bourbon, a little under a year. Ive heard about Pappy but kind of just chalked to Im now and it probably would be worth it to me to chase at this point anyway. So now is the season for it and part of me wants to try and get some.

Here is the dilemma...obviously the difficulty of getting a bottle...honestly the chance are pretty slim..but there is a chance...Secondly the money..up to this point mt most expensive bottle I have was 50 bucks and my average is more like 25....tons of great stuff i the price range to keep my occupied...

So if I wanted to treat myself this holiday season with an expensive bottle.....is chasing pappy worth it or should I look elsewhere for something different? I mean you have to do it at least once right? Or even just buy 2 bottles of something cheaper.....

[sutton]

No problem asking - I just think you'll have a hard time finding and might end up frustrated. See if you can find it in a bar and while the pour might be expensive, it will be cheaper than the bottle and might satisfy your curiosity.

As to alternatives - what do you like? If you like rye-based, one of the Four Rose's LEs are usually findable and quite a treat - or maybe one of the Parker's Heritage Collection ... while these aren't as easy to find as a couple of years ago, they are still more likely to be found on the shelf than any of the PVW.

[Tony]

Good Day-

I agree that you may want to try it at a bar first. I am not sure exactly where you are at but if you can drive a bit you can find it at Giovanni's in Detroit, and if you have not been there you should go have dinner, it is great. The Sugar House in Detroit also has it as does the Oakland in Ferndale, those are also two very cool craft cocktail bars that if you have not checked out you should.

Best regards, Tony

[Yeti]

Sutton's recommendation to find a pour in a bar is by far the best advice anyone "seeking Pappy" with no experience can receive. There is so much mystique and reverence and expectation built into the PVW experience (not even considering the cost and difficulty to obtain) and to many it is a letdown. Conversely, I think it's safe to say that some enjoy the experience without criticism because of the extreme and unique nature of finding, buying, and drinking Pappy. I think both situations are unfortunate, and while finding a bar that offers any Van Winkle and shelling out $20 (or much more depending on the bottle) brings its own expectations and frustrations, it's nowhere near the hunt and expense of finding an entire bottle.

With all of that said, if the man behind the counter at the liquor store says "would you like a bottle of Van Winkle?" You say, "Yes. Yes, I would." If you're just looking to go above and beyond for the holidays (and you should if you want to, there's wonderful stuff at both ends of the price spectrum) here are the releases I would purchase if my local store said I could only take one bottle.

1. PVW 20

2. VWFRR

3. FRSmBLE13

4. Saz 18

5. PVW 15

6. WLW

7. GTS

8. ER17

9. ORVW 10/107

10. THH

[LostBottle]

Hunting is fun, I enjoy hunting bottles nearly as much as I do drinking them. That said the days of hunting Pappy seem to be over as you will not find it hitting a retail shelf. Now it is more about jumping through hoops, kissing a$$, entering lotteries, and waiting in lines; basically fighting all the other maniacs who have to have a bottle. It is not just Pappy, no bourbon is worth the circus, especially when that effort could be expended to hunt some ND OGD or the like.

[smknjoe]

The only thing I can add to the above comments is don't overpay - too much at least. I know a place that has PVW15 for $500, it retails for ~$80.

[MtnDew]

It's only worth it to me if I happen to stumble upon a bottle, which I have done a few times. Otherwise I don't think the hooplah is worth it. If you want something very similar try Weller 12, it's basically the same thing as the 12 year pappy at a lower proof, though the barrel was not handpicked by JVW. There was an interview on whiskey cast recently where he said Weller was the primary bourbon consumed in the Winkle household.

[smknjoe]

If you want something very similar try Weller 12, it's basically the same thing as the 12 year pappy at a lower proof, though the barrel was not handpicked by JVW.

This statement could not be truer. I have a hard time telling them apart.

[squire]

loki I believe taste is entirely subjective and we need apologize to no one for what we like. Years ago I and other Bourbon aficionados I know left Pappy on the shelves to collect dust choosing traditional rye recipe brands instead. Since you're just getting into Bourbon I suggest you first determine if you like wheat recipe brands.

The best way to start is by choosing, say, four bottles, Four Roses Yellow label, regular Buffalo Trace, Makers Mark and Wellers (any version) then conduct a blind tasting. If you prefer the wheated style then explore other brands that share that recipe.

As for Pappy if anyone identifiably has unlimited access to the brand it's Julian Van Winkle who stated in a recent interview that he and his family preferred the 15 year old version.

As for taste the late Master Distiller Elmer T. Lee (who could have any barrel proof in the warehouses) drank 90 proof stating he didn't care for "high octane whisky" and he mixed that with Sprite.

So explore the different house styles until you find what suits you best. I hope you discover you can enjoy a really fine Bourbon for a very reasonable price.

[bingstein]

I will add that I found a decent amount (for me) of VW last fall, only a few months after I got interested in the hobby in earnest. At the time, I thought that the PVW15 and 20 were easily the best bourbons I had ever tried, and I was pretty convinced that ryes were not for me.

Fast-forward 1 year and a lot has changed, and I cannot say any longer that the VW I procured is anywhere in the top 5 bourbons/ryes I've ever had. A lot of that is thanks to friends and fellow SB members who were willing to share some of their pours with me that I liked more. Also, my palate changed and wheaters are not my favorite any more. I have also discovered that I love rye. And Jim Rutledge.

For me, I am really, really happy that I had those PVWs because it let me know that there is a lot out there that is just as good or better that can be had with way less headache (though all of it is kind of becoming a headache to me after a year). For that reason I would absolutely not hesitate picking up whatever VW you can find. You may discover that you like other stuff better and that the Pappy mystique is not worth all the hassle.

[loki993]

No problem asking - I just think you'll have a hard time finding and might end up frustrated. See if you can find it in a bar and while the pour might be expensive, it will be cheaper than the bottle and might satisfy your curiosity.

As to alternatives - what do you like? If you like rye-based, one of the Four Rose's LEs are usually findable and quite a treat - or maybe one of the Parker's Heritage Collection ... while these aren't as easy to find as a couple of years ago, they are still more likely to be found on the shelf than any of the PVW.

Im sure I will honestly but I wont be frustrated about it....I'm expecting to not find it and will be pleasantly surprised if I do. I have a few place I will talk to in mind and Ill get on their lists....if I get a call or they get some they do..if not no big deal.

I like a good high rye bourbon...I like the spicy kick..that said I also really like EC12 year which isn't really spicy at all.

I've seen PHC sitting on shelves in 2 places recently but the price throw me a bit but for a special treat maybe....

Ive read a bit about he FR LE single barrel and that seems like it could be right up my alley to and should be about the same price as a bottle of PVW15 if I can fine one....and don't get gouged...

Good Day-

I agree that you may want to try it at a bar first. I am not sure exactly where you are at but if you can drive a bit you can find it at Giovanni's in Detroit, and if you have not been there you should go have dinner, it is great. The Sugar House in Detroit also has it as does the Oakland in Ferndale, those are also two very cool craft cocktail bars that if you have not checked out you should.

Best regards, Tony

Been to both the Oakland and The Sugar House, just there last night actually, and yeah they are great places. Both have whatever I want....I think the Sugar house wanted 35 for a pour of the 15 though....which I though was high but I don't know I haven't been looking in bars for it very much so I dont really know the going rate...For sure easier than trying to run down a bottle and chase trucks though....

I wont pay crazy prices for it it only worth it to me if I can get it for close to retail....or maybe a little more....500 bucks for a bottle is insanity if you ask me....

As for Weller 12 its not available in Michigan unfortunately, though I do want to try it, and I'm currently trying t find a way to get some online or something....

I mean I know of 2 places that basically put it out when they get it and dont mess around with lists.....I just have to hit the place at just the right time which could be tough especially with everyone else trying to do that too....

Basically I guess we could call this thread what should I get instead when I dont get a bottle of pappy lol

[loki993]

loki I believe taste is entirely subjective and we need apologize to no one for what we like. Years ago I and other Bourbon aficionados I know left Pappy on the shelves to collect dust choosing traditional rye recipe brands instead. Since you're just getting into Bourbon I suggest you first determine if you like wheat recipe brands.

The best way to start is by choosing, say, four bottles, Four Roses Yellow label, regular Buffalo Trace, Makers Mark and Wellers (any version) then conduct a blind tasting. If you prefer the wheated style then explore other brands that share that recipe.

As for Pappy if anyone identifiably has unlimited access to the brand it's Julian Van Winkle who stated in a recent interview that he and his family preferred the 15 year old version.

As for taste the late Master Distiller Elmer T. Lee (who could have any barrel proof in the warehouses) drank 90 proof stating he didn't care for "high octane whisky" and he mixed that with Sprite.

So explore the different house styles until you find what suits you best. I hope you discover you can enjoy a really fine Bourbon for a very reasonable price.

See I've had a few....well more then a few lol...

Ive had the Four Roses small batch honestly it wasn't my favorite....good but not great to me...it was a bit soft and lacking the spicy kick I really like..That doesn't mean I wont try other Four Roses though I was just about to grab a bottle of the standard yellow to try when a single barrel select version of Eagle Rare jumped out at me.

I've had Old Weller Antique and loved it

Rittenhouse Rye is a goto for me and since I first had it its been a rare time that there wasn't a bottle of it here in the house.

I've had Buffalo Trace, my first real bottle of bourbon, and I liked it a lot though I haven't come back to it since that last bottle...

Thats a few Ive had....what you mentioned...

Like I said I'm still new and still trying everything new I can find to see what I like but as of right now I think I like the stuff with a lot or Ryes....but the wheaters aren't far behind..though I've only have the one....I liked the Weller Antique a lot though...enough that I went through 2 bottles of it....so Im definitely interested in more wheaters.....

As for the high rye thing I've been thinking over the past few days why I haven't just grabbed a bottle of Wild Turkey....which somehow I've avoided up to this point.....

[squire]

I also enjoy the high rye style, particularly Old Grand Dad.

[loki993]

Ive had the 114 and I liked it...Ive been meaning to pick up either a regular or bottled in Bond....just haven't figured out which one I want to try next...

[WAINWRIGHT]

I will add only this,if you enjoy a "feel it in your bones" rye kick and enjoy that profile seek out a FRSB OBSK Private Selection of some sort from a local or online retailer and you'll probably love it.Prices generally run between $50-65 for a cask strength bottling so you get a lot of bang for your buck.

[Yeti]

I will add only this,if you enjoy a "feel it in your bones" rye kick and enjoy that profile seek out a FRSB OBSK Private Selection of some sort from a local or online retailer and you'll probably love it.Prices generally run between $50-65 for a cask strength bottling so you get a lot of bang for your buck.

Hear, hear! I'll add that, while a premium above the price Ryan proposed, the 2013 FR Single Barrel LE (OBSK, 13 YO) is a monster spice-bomb of delicious whiskey and should be tried by anyone whom that description appeals to.

[393foureyedfox]

if you like proof and a rye kick, for the money you cant beat OGD 114. Fighting Cock is another good bang for the buck.

im not a big wheater fan. i like the sweetness but they have no spice, generally speaking.

i dont even want to play the Pappy game. If i found some, id probably grab it and call a few people to see if they want it, and if not, id put it back on the shelf. even if it was better than my favorites, i wouldnt want my new favorite to become something nearly impossible to find, or pay for. Im mostly sticking to stuff i can routinely find. collectors/profiteers tend to ruin anything enjoyable. I used to love building old Dodge/Plymouth musclecars....finding cars or parts was about as easy as tracking down a LE 4R these days - doable, with some work, and well enjoyed when you did. collectors/investors got involved in the 90's and now id rather try to track down a Pappy than some parts for some of those cars. I said screw it and switched to more attainable cars. that lesson impacts my bourbon choices today.

when you get down to it, it is a 750ml bottle of a liquid consumable commodity like any other....maybe youll like it more, maybe not. the question is, is it worth it TO YOU?

Edited November 1, 2013 by 393foureyedfox

[mbroo5880i]

Great advice in this thread! I am not personally "chasing" PVW or BTAC. Of course, I would be really happy to find one but if I don't, I don't.

[KCJason1]

I hop, skip, and get all giddy after I get "the call"... I usually peek at the bottle a few times on the way home. I am always in such a great mood after getting a bottle.

[squire]

Who sez you can't buy happiness.

[Fodowsky]

I've enjoyed Pappy for years. As it's gotten harder to come by, I have to say that I enjoy the hunt! I have several places that let me know when stock arrives. Being a good customer throughout the year certainly has its advantages.

[loki993]

So heres the deal so far, I made a stop yesterday to another place. One thing no one I've talked to so far does "lists"..they put it out and when it goes it goes...The guy here was really cool he's like just start calling around the time it starts coming out and he would tell me if they got it or not...told me to call when their truck came in....

Funny thing I guess I hear all this talk abort lists..but no one here seems to do them....

I will add only this,if you enjoy a "feel it in your bones" rye kick and enjoy that profile seek out a FRSB OBSK Private Selection of some sort from a local or online retailer and you'll probably love it.Prices generally run between $50-65 for a cask strength bottling so you get a lot of bang for your buck.

I may have to try and find one of those because I would like that.

Hear, hear! I'll add that, while a premium above the price Ryan proposed, the 2013 FR Single Barrel LE (OBSK, 13 YO) is a monster spice-bomb of delicious whiskey and should be tried by anyone whom that description appeals to.

Its about the same as a bottle of Pappy so I wouldn't mind paying it....thats also one I'm on the hunt for because it should be everything I think it should be...

if you like proof and a rye kick, for the money you cant beat OGD 114. Fighting Cock is another good bang for the buck.

im not a big wheater fan. i like the sweetness but they have no spice, generally speaking.

i dont even want to play the Pappy game. If i found some, id probably grab it and call a few people to see if they want it, and if not, id put it back on the shelf. even if it was better than my favorites, i wouldnt want my new favorite to become something nearly impossible to find, or pay for. Im mostly sticking to stuff i can routinely find. collectors/profiteers tend to ruin anything enjoyable. I used to love building old Dodge/Plymouth musclecars....finding cars or parts was about as easy as tracking down a LE 4R these days - doable, with some work, and well enjoyed when you did. collectors/investors got involved in the 90's and now id rather try to track down a Pappy than some parts for some of those cars. I said screw it and switched to more attainable cars. that lesson impacts my bourbon choices today.

when you get down to it, it is a 750ml bottle of a liquid consumable commodity like any other....maybe youll like it more, maybe not. the question is, is it worth it TO YOU?

Its something I want to try at least once thats all...Im not going to get crazy with it like some people do..Im going to call a few places, make a few stops and see if I can get something....if I can great..if not thats ok too....and some people are right the hunt may be part of the fun....as long as its kept in reason for me at least......

I feel your pain of the dodge muscle cars...I remember when you could get just about anything in at least decent for a reasonable amount of money....now you almost need a second mortgage to get anything thats even drivable.....

[Tony Santana]

I think on some level we all want to possess something that is rare or hard to find. The lengths one is willing to go to obtain it is another story altogether.

[Yeti]

Says the guy who's tripping over 2013 Van Winkles! :slappin:

[Tony Santana]

Says the guy who's tripping over 2013 Van Winkles! :slappin:

Good point, Yeti. I'm just saying, YMMV. And I didn't exactly move heaven and earth to find them. Dropped some cash on some other bottles, got in good with the owner, moved quickly and to some extent may have gotten lucky.