Pappy and the hunt...is it worth it?

[nd2005]

It's amazing to think that a decade ago 15 sat on shelves at about $50/bottle and 20 at about $80/bottle. Well, not all of them sat, some were methodically removed. If I would have only known the future.

Will

[Special Reserve]

nd

Where in MI?

In SEMI, (Livonia and other nearby locales) it has been hard to find PVW on shelves for long. A decade ago they collected dust.

Will

[nd2005]

nd

Where in MI?

In SEMI, (Livonia and other nearby locales) it has been hard to find PVW on shelves for long. A decade ago they collected dust.

Will

[393foureyedfox]

I did that Gary, or something very similar. A blind tasting of Pappy 20, Elijah Craig 12 and 18, Very Rare Old Heaven Hill 10 year old BIB and Old Grand Dad BIB. Six participants, all experienced, one of whom was a big Pappy fan. The choices were name your favorite of the flight and identify the brand.

Four guys chose EC12 as their first choice (I hand picked the bottle, it was a good one).

The Pappy fan chose EC18 first, HH BIB second and Pappy third. He later defended his choice by saying all 18-20 year old whisky tastes about the same which to him I suppose they do. By the way, those who don't remember the Very Rare Old Heaven Hill it had more wood in the taste profile than you would expect from a 10 year old.

You fellas can guess my choice.

and again, squire proves he knows best!

i just wish i had some of that HH 10 year BIB! I bet that would be nice!

[Special Reserve]

A2.

my first year here we arranged a bourbon tasting at Zingermans roadhouse with the whole lineup of VW products except the rye. Those were the days...

Zingerman's, Gandy Dancer, The Earle, or The Chop House may still have in their bars. Just how the world works. I've never been to The Chop House. Of the others, I prefer the Gandy Dancer. 15 years ago I'd occasionally meet my wife there for lunch, what a treat.

[WAINWRIGHT]

The trend has truly shifted and overly inflated worth for this ignorantly regarded "Grail" bottles has pushed things to a level of which I thought I'd never see.Many people,including myself will start to shift their focus on these great bottlings as the demand continues to rise and seek out other products.I fully admit I used to hunt them to the limit and for me the chase is over.It's not SW stock anymore,the prices continue to rise and production has not been increased in the least.I went from hunting in five states to leaving my faith in the hands of one sole store,if I get a bottle great,if not honestly I no longer care it's no longer worth my time or effort.

[Restaurant man]

The trend has truly shifted and overly inflated worth for this ignorantly regarded "Grail" bottles has pushed things to a level of which I thought I'd never see.Many people,including myself will start to shift their focus on these great bottlings as the demand continues to rise and seek out other products.I fully admit I used to hunt them to the limit and for me the chase is over.It's not SW stock anymore,the prices continue to rise and production has not been increased in the least.I went from hunting in five states to leaving my faith in the hands of one sole store,if I get a bottle great,if not honestly I no longer care it's no longer worth my time or effort.

Yup. That's my opinion as well.

[theglobalguy]

The trend has truly shifted and overly inflated worth for this ignorantly regarded "Grail" bottles has pushed things to a level of which I thought I'd never see.Many people,including myself will start to shift their focus on these great bottlings as the demand continues to rise and seek out other products.I fully admit I used to hunt them to the limit and for me the chase is over.It's not SW stock anymore,the prices continue to rise and production has not been increased in the least.I went from hunting in five states to leaving my faith in the hands of one sole store,if I get a bottle great,if not honestly I no longer care it's no longer worth my time or effort.

Very well stated.

[MyOldKyDram]

Sounds about right to me.

[P&MLiquorsEric]

The trend has truly shifted and overly inflated worth for this ignorantly regarded "Grail" bottles has pushed things to a level of which I thought I'd never see.Many people,including myself will start to shift their focus on these great bottlings as the demand continues to rise and seek out other products.I fully admit I used to hunt them to the limit and for me the chase is over.It's not SW stock anymore,the prices continue to rise and production has not been increased in the least.I went from hunting in five states to leaving my faith in the hands of one sole store,if I get a bottle great,if not honestly I no longer care it's no longer worth my time or effort.

Very well said.

I won't tell anyone that it is worth the chase anymore. But I am also someone who rarely waits in a line nor will I visit 30 places looking for any single item.

It will never happen but BT should put on some giant pappy festival each fall and sell every single bottle that they produce. It would make it easier on everyone involved.

True fans could make the journey and wait in the longest line ever and be rewarded with a bottle. You wouldn't see people with 15 bottles from a single release selling them on BX the next day. Limit it to one bottle per person.

[oke&coke]

Very well said.

I won't tell anyone that it is worth the chase anymore. But I am also someone who rarely waits in a line nor will I visit 30 places looking for any single item.

It will never happen but BT should put on some giant pappy festival each fall and sell every single bottle that they produce. It would make it easier on everyone involved.

True fans could make the journey and wait in the longest line ever and be rewarded with a bottle. You wouldn't see people with 15 bottles from a single release selling them on BX the next day. Limit it to one bottle per person.

That's actually not a bad idea. They could sell only as many tickets as they have bottles so you know you would be getting one.

[smknjoe]

It wouldn't stop people from going to their local liquor store and asking for it though.

[squire]

It's not SW stock anymore,the prices continue to rise and production has not been increased in the least.

That's the crux of the matter isn't it? It's not special anymore. The stock is there but production is held down to keep demand up. My, my, they are acting more like a Micro who's playing their customers like puppets on a string.

[393foureyedfox]

That's the crux of the matter isn't it? It's not special anymore. The stock is there but production is held down to keep demand up. My, my, they are acting more like a Micro who's playing their customers like puppets on a string.

most people ARE puppets on a string anymore...

[HighInTheMtns]

I will more than likely be passing on BTAC and Van Winkle this year. I may decide to pick up a Saz or a VWFRR, but I'm not going to go out of my way to look for it.

I like Van Winkle whiskey a lot. I can't get the 10/107 here, but if I could, I would buy that for sure. I've thoroughly enjoyed every bottle of VW I've had. But by now there are a lot of things that I'm much more interested in drinking, that I don't have to go through the same rigamarole to get.

Edited November 9, 2013 by HighInTheMtns

[joboyd]

That's the crux of the matter isn't it? It's not special anymore. The stock is there but production is held down to keep demand up. My, my, they are acting more like a Micro who's playing their customers like puppets on a string.

But it's not the Van Winkle's fault the demand has increased drastically over the last few years. Had they known their product would be in such high demand, you bet your last dollar they would've filled as many barrels as they could 15, 20, 23 years ago. And therein lies the problem: Their production won't be able to keep up for quite some time. True, they could cut down on the number of 20 and 23 barrels they put out, but then the demand for those bottles would be even higher. We can't sit here and blame a producer who has to bet their money two decades in advance and may never see a profit. Imagine the courage it takes to invest in something you know won't bring you a ROI for 15 years. Call it luck, foresight, or whatever you want, but the supply we have now is in and of itself a small miracle when you think about it. That's why I have the utmost respect for anyone who distills. You never know what you're going to extract from the barrel years from now, let alone whether anyone will want to buy it, not to mention whether the product is any, you know, good.

[smknjoe]

But it's not the Van Winkle's fault the demand has increased drastically over the last few years. Had they known their product would be in such high demand, you bet your last dollar they would've filled as many barrels as they could 15, 20, 23 years ago. And therein lies the problem: Their production won't be able to keep up for quite some time. True, they could cut down on the number of 20 and 23 barrels they put out, but then the demand for those bottles would be even higher. We can't sit here and blame a producer who has to bet their money two decades in advance and may never see a profit. Imagine the courage it takes to invest in something you know won't bring you a ROI for 15 years. Call it luck, foresight, or whatever you want, but the supply we have now is in and of itself a small miracle when you think about it. That's why I have the utmost respect for anyone who distills. You never know what you're going to extract from the barrel years from now, let alone whether anyone will want to buy it, not to mention whether the product is any, you know, good.

I think you have Van Winkle confused with Buffalo Trace. Van Winkle is a Non Distiller Producer who built his brand on Stitzel-Weller distillate which is basically all gone. Now Van Winkle uses Buffalo Trace distillate which is quite common and not "special". The Stitzel-Weller bourbon is what made PVW so special to most of the fans of the brand.

[nd2005]

Zingerman's, Gandy Dancer, The Earle, or The Chop House may still have in their bars. Just how the world works. I've never been to The Chop House. Of the others, I prefer the Gandy Dancer. 15 years ago I'd occasionally meet my wife there for lunch, what a treat.

Zingermans got 3 bottles total this year (20, 12, 10) and expected to sell out of all of them yesterday ( home football weekend). Chop house got some lot B and that's it. The Ravens club struck a deal with the devil or something and got the biggest allotment in town as well as an exclusive tasting with Julian next week.

edit: gandy to my knowledge has never had a bottle - their bourbon selection is very limited. Haven't checked the Earle.

Edited November 9, 2013 by nd2005

[HighInTheMtns]

I'm guessing that the belief that Julian and Preston have any say in how much Van Winkle is bottled is a false one.

[squire]

I certainly don't subscribe to that belief Jim. I believe Buffalo Trace uses the Van Winkle line as a shining figurehead for their wheat recipe whiskys and I doubt they will do anything to diminish that luster.

[clingman71]

I'm guessing that the belief that Julian and Preston have any say in how much Van Winkle is bottled is a false one.

I would expect that their contract deal specifies how much is available for them to have bottled.

[HighInTheMtns]

I would expect that their contract deal specifies how much is available for them to have bottled.

[squire]

Well, who's in control here, is Van Winkle actually in a position to pull up stakes and go elsewhere?

[HighInTheMtns]

Well, who's in control here, is Van Winkle actually in a position to pull up stakes and go elsewhere?

[squire]

Yep, not the same style, even with the Fitzgerald mash bill the stills are different and HH uses their proprietary yeast.