Pappy and the hunt...is it worth it?

[squire]

Because there technically are no barrels from the lower floors. Unless something changed, Makers rotates their barrels.

A number of distillers rotated their barrels 50 years ago but times and technology have changed. The Beam group that owns Makers like to spin yarns about doing things the old fashioned way but the truth is whisky is a commodity they make to sell and the more costs they save the more profit they make. Moving barrels around uses manpower which cost money so nothing is moved that doesn't have to be.

Makers has found a commercially successful flavor profile and if they can maintain that by mixing barrels from different floors that's the way they will roll.

[Quantum]

I know Maker's is in high demand, but how much Pappy is made each year? 5000 bottles? Drop in the bucket in Maker's production ... Wouldn't seem to be much of an impact to their supply and it would seem to attract a lot of attention to the brand. They felt the need to make Maker's 46, so it can't be all about making sure the baseline Maker's is maxed out. Perhaps their stuff just doesn't age well .. (or at least, $100/bottle well ...)

My guess is that it would age terribly, from an accounting perspective at least. As others have pointed out, every drop of bourbon they have is guaranteed to sell at around 6 years old. Even if you can sell it as a price high enough to make it worth holding onto for an extra 9 years, the volume wouldn't be high enough to make a difference to the bottom line. Thats fine, because now they have a halo item to draw more attention to the brand... which they are already selling faster than they can produce. Best case scenario, they are able seriously think about raising the price of regular MM by a couple bucks in another 10 years.

MM is just such a solid, steady performer that it would be hard to justify any extra risk and effort. Yes, BT can distill whiskey in an antique radiator using leftover horse feed and sell it for $50 an ounce, but taking risks doesn't always pay off so well. I would love to see it, but sometimes its just not worth rocking the boat.

[Brisko]

Yes, BT can distill whiskey in an antique radiator using leftover horse feed and sell it for $50 an ounce

[Special Reserve]

Found some PVW today! $750 for 15 and $1500 for 20. I didn't even say you're an a$$hole. I just left.

[mbroo5880i]

Found some PVW today! $750 for 15 and $1500 for 20. I didn't even say you're an a$$hole. I just left.

Hopefully, he was a mind reader! :grin:

[squire]

Makers Mark is like Jack Daniels, they have a hit song and no reason to change the lyrics.

[Old Lamplighter]

Found some PVW today! $750 for 15 and $1500 for 20. I didn't even say you're an a$$hole. I just left.

:toast: The Great Pappy Heist, Part II

[Tony]

Found some PVW today! $750 for 15 and $1500 for 20. I didn't even say you're an a$$hole. I just left.

Do people really pay these kind of prices? I could see 10-20% but I really do not see it being worth these kind of mark ups. Look at things like WLW and FRSmB2013, these are great bourbons that are not commanding these kind of prices.

Will it end sometime?

Best regards, Tony

[squire]

I think some store owners just want to keep some around for display.

[smknjoe]

Do people really pay these kind of prices? I could see 10-20% but I really do not see it being worth these kind of mark ups. Look at things like WLW and FRSmB2013, these are great bourbons that are not commanding these kind of prices.

Will it end sometime?

Best regards, Tony

There are a couple of stores here that sell PVW15 @ $400 a pop. Somebody is buying it. Crazy, isn't it? I would guess the people paying those prices have never heard of WLW or 4RLEs.

[snifred]

I've pretty much given up now too. Over the last few years, without a ton of effort, I've managed 3 PVW15, 1 PVW20, 3 Lot B's, and 4 ORVW 10/107. I do enjoy them, but the time, effort, gas, and frustration now are just not worth it to me. I'd still buy any but the 23 if I stumbled across them, but I've had enough.

[squire]

There are a couple of stores here that sell PVW15 @ $400 a pop. Somebody is buying it. Crazy, isn't it? I would guess the people paying those prices have never heard of WLW or 4RLEs.

There are a surprisingly large number of people who can afford $200 for dinner so $400 for a show off bottle is no big deal. They're not buying a brand they're buying bragging rights.

[tigerlam92]

There are a surprisingly large number of people who can afford $200 for dinner so $400 for a show off bottle is no big deal. They're not buying a brand they're buying bragging rights.

I love PVW and had been obsessed but haven't hunted for any since 09.

PVW15 at $400 is definitely for bragging and saying they are not very smart. If it is for PVW23 then I can almost understand, for someone who has never tried it.

I really don't think anyone is paying those obscene prices though.

[smknjoe]

I really don't think anyone is paying those obscene prices though.

I find it hard to believe too, but they assured me that they have sold them at that price when I asked.

[docbible]

I would sell every bottle I have for those prices. I wonder if they would pay a premium for SW juice? Looks like my kids might get to college after all. Recycled pappy will hit the market next, just don't eat asparagus before refilling the bottle. Tim

[stevegoz]

I've pretty much given up now too. Over the last few years, without a ton of effort, I've managed 3 PVW15, 1 PVW20, 3 Lot B's, and 4 ORVW 10/107. I do enjoy them, but the time, effort, gas, and frustration now are just not worth it to me. I'd still buy any but the 23 if I stumbled across them, but I've had enough.

I hear you. I started getting into bourbon heavily in 2010, and was very happy to find a store nearby that had all but the 20 on the shelf at that point. And I bunkered around a dozen bottles at reasonable prices. When I saw this same store wanted $99 last year for Lot B, I figured my Pappy buying was a thing of the past.

My sole regret was not buying more of the then-copious 10/107....

[savagehenry]

Recycled pappy will hit the market next, just don't eat asparagus before refilling the bottle. Tim

My nomination for line of the year.

[portwood]

Recycled pappy will hit the market next, just don't eat asparagus before refilling the bottle. Tim

Joking aside, the problem may be real in the not too distant future - if its not already happening with bottles on the secondary market. Its happened in the wine and Scotch markets in the past: filling collectible bottles with fake (though similar tasting) liquid and selling at auction/ebay/etc.

[squire]

Of course people are paying those prices and whether or not that's a smart decision depends on your circumstances. Once a product is elevated to the luxury goods status prices are set by those who can afford them.

[Gillman]

Of course people are paying those prices and whether or not that's a smart decision depends on your circumstances. Once a product is elevated to the luxury goods status prices are set by those who can afford them.

Exactly. Price really needs to be set aside in these discussions and the product itself assessed (by those who have it) against others in its category, which broadly is bourbon. All that matters in the end is the bourbon...

I would like to see the results of a blind tasting between Pappy 20, EC 12, current WT 81, OGD and one or two others. It would be very interesting.

Gary

[squire]

I did that Gary, or something very similar. A blind tasting of Pappy 20, Elijah Craig 12 and 18, Very Rare Old Heaven Hill 10 year old BIB and Old Grand Dad BIB. Six participants, all experienced, one of whom was a big Pappy fan. The choices were name your favorite of the flight and identify the brand.

Four guys chose EC12 as their first choice (I hand picked the bottle, it was a good one).

The Pappy fan chose EC18 first, HH BIB second and Pappy third. He later defended his choice by saying all 18-20 year old whisky tastes about the same which to him I suppose they do. By the way, those who don't remember the Very Rare Old Heaven Hill it had more wood in the taste profile than you would expect from a 10 year old.

You fellas can guess my choice.

[Special Reserve]

Do people really pay these kind of prices? I could see 10-20% but I really do not see it being worth these kind of mark ups. Look at things like WLW and FRSmB2013, these are great bourbons that are not commanding these kind of prices.

Will it end sometime?

Best regards, Tony

In the distant past I'd pass when they were above the state minimum. Then I'd accept a 5 to 10% price bump if I wanted a specific product.

This store was a large upscale store in SE Canton, MI that I went into as a was driving by. I was surprised to see such pricing. I'm wondering if local clientele would or could afford to drop that on a bottle of bourbon. I would have been less surprised to discover this in the Birmingham/Bloomfield area.

It's amazing to think that a decade ago 15 sat on shelves at about $50/bottle and 20 at about $80/bottle. Well, not all of them sat, some were methodically removed. If I would have only known the future.

Will

[Gillman]

Thanks Squire, even with the qualifiers rather telling… I remember that HH and as I recall it had a pronounced distillery flavour, not just a lot of wood taste but a baroque flavour typical of that brand (still showing corn notes but in an aged way).

Gary

I did that Gary, or something very similar. A blind tasting of Pappy 20, Elijah Craig 12 and 18, Very Rare Old Heaven Hill 10 year old BIB and Old Grand Dad BIB. Six participants, all experienced, one of whom was a big Pappy fan. The choices were name your favorite of the flight and identify the brand.

Four guys chose EC12 as their first choice (I hand picked the bottle, it was a good one).

The Pappy fan chose EC18 first, HH BIB second and Pappy third. He later defended his choice by saying all 18-20 year old whisky tastes about the same which to him I suppose they do. By the way, those who don't remember the Very Rare Old Heaven Hill it had more wood in the taste profile than you would expect from a 10 year old.

You fellas can guess my choice.

[Old Lamplighter]

It's amazing to think that a decade ago 15 sat on shelves at about $50/bottle and 20 at about $80/bottle. Well, not all of them sat, some were methodically removed. If I would have only known the future.

Will

I'm probably safe in stating there are many, many of us herein who share this thought...and regret. I wish I had a nickle for how many times I passed ORVW 15/107 & Lot B. Needless to say, I'd have enough nickels right now to put gas in the tank + hunt down a PVW 23 :cry:. I recall telling my wife several times "well, I don't see paying over $20 for 'one of these' when I can get other 'good stuff' I like for less than $20. (Of course, I thought I would come back by some time when she was not with me & sneak 1 home) But....never did...shoulda-woulda-coulda. :banghead:

Edited November 9, 2013 by Old Lamplighter

[squire]

My level of concern is below saying I don't care, I just put Barton in my coffee and celebrate the fact I'm not in the obituaries.