Dolph Lundgren Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I'm with Luther on this 100%. They've been chipping away at WT for years (reduced proofing, going NAS) and this bottle just follows that trend - its really disappointing. This release may turn out to be good, but if it is, it'll never be as good as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hang in there, y'all. Let's see how it goes when we taste the whiskey. Heck, it hasn't even had the benefit of the Airtime, yet...But if we go in with low expectations and it exceeds those expectations then we aren't disappointed. Whereas if we expect greatness and it doesn't meet those expectations then we're disappointed. So it's better to trash it ahead of time instead of praising it. Less pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRich Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 But if we go in with low expectations and it exceeds those expectations then we aren't disappointed. Whereas if we expect greatness and it doesn't meet those expectations then we're disappointed. So it's better to trash it ahead of time instead of praising it. Less pain.Come on Josh, that just makes too much damn sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEelfinn Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Is it possible the 91 proof means it's targeted to non-U.S. markets, similar to WT 13? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighHorse Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I can think of a bunch of pours that I enjoy that are under 100 proof. Maybe some of you guys are proof hounds .. but that doesn't make some very good brands that come out in a comfortable range of 80-100 bad bourbons. I enjoy Buffalo Trace, ETL, Old Forester Birthday Bourbons, Weller 12 and a host of others. Hell, I enjoy Wild Turkey's 81 a lot when I just want a comfortable pour. Maker's Mark ... that ain't bad bourbon. The enjoyment of bourbons well made is not a drag race ... IMO anyway ... it's an enjoy the moment kind of thing. It's no accident that the FR club is called "mellow" moments. Must I feel second class because I'll spring for a sub 100 proof bottle? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethangsmith Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Anything over 80 proof to a vodka company is uncharted territory. Maybe those big number scare them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighInTheMtns Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 As I said before, I'll buy this 91 proof bottle, assuming a reasonable price. I'm excited that there will be a new extra-aged Turkey offering. I buy and drink plenty of bottlings that are in the 86-100 range.My issue is with the management of the brand. Some of the best bourbon I've ever had has been Wild Turkey, from the time before its ownership started devaluing the brand. Under Pernod Ricard and now Campari, the trend has been to reduce age and proof. This period constitutes over half of Jimmy Russell's tenure at the distillery. The "Give 'Em The Bird" ad campaign shows the attitude that the current ownership has toward this once-great brand.So come on, Campari. Let Jimmy and Eddie show us what they can do. #NeverTamed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailor22 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I can think of a bunch of pours that I enjoy that are under 100 proof. Maybe some of you guys are proof hounds .. but that doesn't make some very good brands that come out in a comfortable range of 80-100 bad bourbons. I enjoy Buffalo Trace, ETL, Old Forester Birthday Bourbons, Weller 12 and a host of others. Hell, I enjoy Wild Turkey's 81 a lot when I just want a comfortable pour. Maker's Mark ... that ain't bad bourbon. The enjoyment of bourbons well made is not a drag race ... IMO anyway ... it's an enjoy the moment kind of thing. It's no accident that the FR club is called "mellow" moments. Must I feel second class because I'll spring for a sub 100 proof bottle? I think not.What that fella on the tall horse said.Tribute was released in Japan at a higher proof than in the US. My friends who love Tribute above all other Turkey releases don't think the added proof made a better pour in that case. Plenty of Bourbons have a sweet spot that's below 101, lets not judge this one until we taste it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifax Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 There is a reason we hold WTRR 10-101 in such high regard. Who is running out to load up on RR 10/90? When it comes to their customers Compari says... "Give them the turd." That is all this will be... An overpriced, 91 proof polished turd. I don't see anything special about this release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I agree we are somewhat spoiled by the wide range of 100 and higher proof Bourbons. Alas, I fear they're tearing down our house though, one brick at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalessin Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Since the proof on the approved label can legally be changed without applying for a new label, the actual release could be at a same, higher (or, worse, lower) proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Proof isn't the only thing, but it is a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Elmer T Lee managed to do quite well after going to 90... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I am ok with a proof less than 100. In fact, two of my favorite bourbons are 86 proof and I like several others in the low 90s. My concern is that with a name like Wild Turkey Diamond Anniversary the price might not be Forgiven. If the price is in the low to mid-$30s, I would be in for a try but, if it is much more than that, it will need to be something special to justify the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighInTheMtns Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I am ok with a proof less than 100. In fact, two of my favorite bourbons are 86 proof and I like several others in the low 90s. My concern is that with a name like Wild Turkey Diamond Anniversary the price might not be Forgiven. If the price is in the low to mid-$30s, I would be in for a try but, if it is much more than that, it will need to be something special to justify the price.If this costs less than $40, I'll take back every criticism I've ever leveled at Campari.I'm expecting it'll be $90. But it's old Turkey... It might well be fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyOldKyDram Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 There's the real rub. Of course I would prefer 101, but one of my faves this yr was JBs 12 yo at 86 pf. Course that was $40. If we get a similar hookup here ill certainly give it a go and not be too pissed about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 If this costs less than $40, I'll take back every criticism I've ever leveled at Campari.I'm expecting it'll be $90. But it's old Turkey... It might well be fantastic.I don't think you'll have to eat your words, Jim, as I'm expecting $90ish, too. I'll still move in, though, with a hope for positive results. Like you say, it is Old Turkey. None of those have disappointed me yet, proof notwithstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiSon Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Why do they have to keep making it harder and harder for us Turkey defenders?The best defense is a good offense, and WT new products are getting pretty offensive in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 If this costs less than $40, I'll take back every criticism I've ever leveled at Campari.I'm expecting it'll be $90. But it's old Turkey... It might well be fantastic.Yeah, 13 and 16 year old barrels. Even $90 might be low. Of course, being a member of this forum allows me to get a honest review, albeit tastes can vary, before buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifax Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 · Hidden Hidden Elmer T Lee managed to do quite well after going to 90...ETL is a $30 bourbon. Do you think this limited edition WT product will be $30? Link to comment
Guest Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I agree we are somewhat spoiled by the wide range of 100 and higher proof Bourbons. Alas, I fear they're tearing down our house though, one brick at a time.Unfortunately the writing is on the wall. Bourbon was once the best kept secret in the whiskey world, now increased profit seeking from an inceasingly profitable business will change what we all know and love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolph Lundgren Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I think it's hard to compare the proofing between ETL to WT Diamond. One's a regular on the shelf and the other is a limited premium. Of course you could always throw others like ER17 in the comparative mix, but really, proof preference is subjective and I'm certainly not going to hate and say that 90 proof is bad/wrong/etc...there is plenty of tasty 90 proof whiskey out there. 101 proof has been part of WT's namesake and really where the brand has shined. WT's best releases between the 70s and mid 00s were all 101 proof: Split 12, Gold Foil, RR10, KS, 8yr, Tribute, Spirit, Tradition...the list goes on. WTs more modern releases (except RR SB) have come in below 101 proof and just haven't been that good. So its natural for us to be cautious and critical when WT Diamond falls in line with that trend. To echo what was said earlier, you can always proof down but not up. I proofed down the Japanese Tribute and it was almost indistinguishable from the American Tribute (nuanced differences). I'm sure that almost everyone here would agree with me that when buying a premium bourbon at a premium price, they'd rather the whiskey be high proof which they could dilute to their liking as opposed to buying a low proof whiskey and being stuck with it. I liked what Josh said earlier about hating something before release so as to not be disappointed if it doesn't suck. However, its funny that that sentiment isn't universal and only applies to certain distilleries these days (including WT) - I feel the exact opposite about FR special releases and have high expectations out of the gate.One final thought - I'm not too sure about the name of this release. It doesn't really fit in with the recent brand characterization they've been promoting. Forgiven has a tough guy, Jon Wayne/Clint Eastwood feel to it. But Diamond Anniversary? Give em' the bird...with diamonds? Maybe this gives us a little insight into who the targeted market is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qman22 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I agree about the name. Maybe they will put it in a blue Skyy Vodka bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zillah Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It just sounds so...compromising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighHorse Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm all on board with a raised eyebrow at the lower proof for a limited edition of this magnitude. I'm hopeful it will be worthy of it's price and Mr. Russell. The "proof" will be in the tasting. From what I'm hearing from you guys, that's going to be an uphill trek. :skep: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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