Deception at the Willett Distillery: An Integrity Problem

[Restaurant man]

Chuck you don't need to know anything about your visitors to tell them the truth.

[Old Dusty]

And again, Old Dusty, I apologize if I missed any sarcasm in your post.

[wildrnesxperienc]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I always understood Willett to be a bit different than most other NDP's in that they contract with other distilleries to make distillate especially for them. Then they age that distillate at the Willett site for the entirety of the aging process. They don't go to distilleries and hand select barrels that are already aged like other NDP's. They get a whole bunch of distillate at once and barrel it all up to age. Is that not how they have functioned? Or has it been a combination of that and also hand selecting barrels at other distilleries?

[callmeox]

Willett buys bulk like the others. The contract distilling angle is fable.

[House of Bourbon]

I can't thank all you guys enough for your meaningful and thoughtful feedback. I was a little disheartened at first, not because I was looking for sympathy, but because at least a few of the responders seemed intent on not only excusing Willett, but blaming me for not knowing any better. Rather condescending and very unbecoming.

I'm not new to bourbon, but I have no problem whatsoever acknowledging that compared to all of you, I know nothing. I just love drinking bourbon. Probably too much. And I know just enough to get myself into trouble.

And again: We stopped into Willett because a family member wanted a bottle of the 4-year rye and because someone at the hotel had mentioned it was a nice tour. I was ready to go home. Frankly, I'm distillery-toured out. But we were already at the Bourbon Heritage Center so we figured, why not? Actually, I tried to avoid the tour. I just wanted to buy the bottle and get the hell out of there. I don't even really like rye! So I didn't have the time or the inclination to research Willett before we stopped in. The person for whom we bought the bottle was well aware that Willett didn't distill on their property, but was likewise disappointed to hear about my experience (though all she really gives a damn about is that I got the bottle :grin:).

And, um, I don't wear fanny packs.

But none of that matters. None of it. Amateur, expert, enthusiast, fanny pack wearer, whatever; the knowledge level and/or interest level of your patrons does not give you permission to deliberately mislead them. Distilling off-site, then aging and bottling on-site is not a terribly complex concept.

I never heard back from Shawna. And I don't expect to. The research I've done since my visit and the feedback here on this thread makes it clear that Willett, for some reason, is very uncomfortable telling the truth.

So, shame on them.

Thanks again guys. I love reading your responses, especially the ones that don't aim to insult my intelligence.

[Flyfish]

Willett buys bulk like the others. The contract distilling angle is fable.

Virtually everything you read on a bourbon label is a fable except the technical stuff like proof. "Our bourbon is named for the signal used by our founder's fiancé that she accepted his proposal." "Our bourbon is handcrafted in a lil ole still down in the holler." "Our bourbon is named for the man who invented bourbon." "And we also have another bourbon named for another guy who invented bourbon." "Our bourbon is named for a revenoor who stole our product in the dead of night." "Our blend of bourbon and rye was just a serendipitous accident." We could fill a book with the backstories for bourbon. Chuck may already have done this.

[nd2005]

And to suggest that people visiting the Willett distillery are somehow a bunch of mouth-breathers, unable to comprehend the idea that a product was made in location X and stored in location Y seems a little unkind for a few reasons. First, we were all one of those mouth-breathers before stumbling onto SB.com (at least, I was). Second, I've taught a number of introductory whiskey tastings that included Willett bottlings and I can assure you that even the fanny-packed among them was able to grasp the concept of an NDP. It's not terribly complicated. If someone is interested enough in whiskey to show up at a distillery, it's fair to assume they are interested enough to hear the relatively simple facts about where the whiskey available for purchase was actually made, too.

I wish I could agree. But I have so many (otherwise intelligent) friends who I have had this conversation with multiple times. And yet still, they circle back to...but...it's WILLETT.

Finally, I don't think that a presumption of ignorance entitles a company to lie to its consumers -- particularly those that have made the effort to visit its headquarters, although Willett is hardly alone in this.

This I 100% agree with. And it's made me a little less enthused about my upcoming visit there next month. I'll be sure to report back afterward.

[House of Bourbon]

My only hope is that as a result of the contact I made with Willett via email and Facebook, the negative reviews I left on TripAdvisor and Yelp, and (of course) this thread, that when you visit you won't need to call them out.

If they haven't changed their tune, I hope you'll confront them. Can't wait for your report!

I wish I could agree. But I have so many (otherwise intelligent) friends who I have had this conversation with multiple times. And yet still, they circle back to...but...it's WILLETT.

This I 100% agree with. And it's made me a little less enthused about my upcoming visit there next month. I'll be sure to report back afterward.

[squire]

Hand selected barrels is also a myth, the distillers choose the barrels they put up for auction and it ain't their best stuff. The only thing unique about Willett is they happen to be located next door to their main supplier.

[MyOldKyDram]

You can't really say that either as several of those WFEs and KBD products are widely regarded as some of the best whiskies ever.

[squire]

Lets examine my logic here. When a distiller puts up a group of barrels for sale they don't go through sampling each one because the added labor costs cut into the profit of the sale. Out of this lot a few will be great, some very good, some good and some very ordinary.

What Willet has done is prove Heaven Hill makes some fine whisky that perhaps shows it's best bottled unfiltered at barrel proof.

Edited May 23, 2014 by squire

[nd2005]

You can't really say that either as several of those WFEs and KBD products are widely regarded as some of the best whiskies ever.

But...nearly all those "best whiskies ever" were from what...2009, 10 at the latest? When was the last year a BMH age stated release came out?

They basically had their pick of ultra-aged stock at that time, because no one else was doing anything with it.

[MyOldKyDram]

Point being sometimes they were the best they had to offer.

[squire]

A couple of points bear remembering:

Black Maple Hill made it's reputation from aged barrels selected and bottled by Julian Van Winkle, not KBD.

Overaged, woody whiskys were available for NDPs just a few years ago because they were redundant to the distiller's needs and there was no real demand for them.

It benefited the major distillers to let the NDPs create a market for these old whiskys and drive up the price as well. Now the majors are cashing in and the supply for NDPs has dried up. Prices keep climbing though.

[smokinjoe]

OK, Willett may buy in bulk. But, they then hand select certain, "highest quality" barrels to be bottled under their most premium labels. Others, which may be of lesser quality are mingled and bottled under mid shelf labels. Point being, Willett has shown a penchant for hand selecting extraordinary barrels for bottling into world class whiskies. Based on some reviews that I have read and heard, they continue to do this today.

[squire]

Point being sometimes they were the best they had to offer.

A matter of luck rather than intent which only proves Heaven Hill and the other majors produce some exceptional whiskys which will show up even in a random selection of barrels.

[MyOldKyDram]

Guess HH should've been more selective then when they weren't rolling out their best barrels.

[squire]

OK, Willett may buy in bulk. But, they then hand select certain, "highest quality" barrels to be bottled under their most premium labels.

Yes they have to their credit. It's to their discredit they claim to have made the whisky themselves.

[393foureyedfox]

OK, Willett may buy in bulk. But, they then hand select certain, "highest quality" barrels to be bottled under their most premium labels. Others, which may be of lesser quality are mingled and bottled under mid shelf labels. Point being, Willett has shown a penchant for hand selecting extraordinary barrels for bottling into world class whiskies. Based on some reviews that I have read and heard, they continue to do this today.

exactly, and what everyone else is missing here.

if you buy barrels in bulk, only a few will be exceptional. Those will be selected and put into the WFE labels. the rest will be divided into 'profiles' and put into KBD's other labels

[smokinjoe]

Yes they have to their credit. It's to their discredit they claim to have made the whisky themselves.

Your second sentence has been well covered and commented upon in the prior 7+ pages of this thread. On point here, Willett "hand selecting" barrels is not a "myth".

[Gillman]

Squire, I think what some here are suggesting is, by dint of barreling, aging, mingling and bottling on site, they did make it themselves, or at least enough for the purpose of talking to people on a tour. If they contract out the distilling as appears the case, that is theirs too and at least some of the mash bills seem proprietary. What's the difference whether they have a still on premises or "rent" one offsite, for what to boot ends as a small part of the total palate? I do favor as I said maximum disclosure but some businesspeople take another route, one much hallowed in bourbon history as even a cursory review of many popular labels suggests. Is that hallowed recipe supposedly unchanged for x generations you read about on brand y really what it says? Did "old john von mcfarquar" really start up distilling in 1790 or whenever as brand Z states? It's puffery, as old as the hills.

Gary

Edited May 23, 2014 by Gillman

[wildrnesxperienc]

But do they "contract" out the distilling, or do they buy barrels in bulk? Those are two different things, are they not? I was under the impression they contracted out distilling but a post above said that was a myth and they were no different than other NDPs. Does anyone know for sure how they functioned in the past?

[nd2005]

But do they "contract" out the distilling, or do they buy barrels in bulk? Those are two different things, are they not? I was under the impression they contracted out distilling but a post above said that was a myth and they were no different than other NDPs. Does anyone know for sure how they functioned in the past?

I thought the consensus was that they buy in bulk. Then age themselves (at least recently - certainly not the case with many of their previous 15-20+ yr aged releases). Then they select certain barrels for single barrel age stated WFE releases; the rest get blended and allocated to the remainder of their labels.

[wildrnesxperienc]

Anyone know definitively? So, in that scenario, say they bought whiskey from Heaven Hill- the mashbill is HH's and HH barrels the whiskey, then the whiskey is transported to Willett to age?

[squire]

That is correct though in the past the whisky was purchased already aged.