About All Things Pappy/VanWinkle

[Richnimrod]

I'm with Joe. Not even on a list this year. Last year I managed to pick up a bottle of 20-yr Pappy for a friend (on this board as a matter of fact); but that was the last time I was on a list. Same with BTAC. With the GBS picked bottles, I really don't have the extra room... (or cash?), nor the desire to wade into the mud after 'em.

However, if I were to get a call, I'd consider a purchase.

[kjbeggs]

I've told the owner of the one place it might be reasonably possible to get any BTAC/Pappy which bottle(s) I'd prefer.

I put my name on lists at the big chains several years ago, so if they were to give me a call, sure I'd buy whatever they offered at/near retail.

I'm not "above it all", I'm just too tired to keep up with the constantly changing rules/lists/etc.

I'll go participate in the (free) Lottery event my favorite store is having in November, but mostly to get some free samples and hang out with the owner and my fellow SBers who also shop there.

If my number gets drawn early enough, that's a bonus.

[flahute]

I'm not above it. I'll try to find one with expectations firmly in check. Won't sweat it if I fail.

[The Black Tot]

Just once I'd like an announcement of "Surprisingly, everything came out fantastically this year - the angels left the barrels alone and we have TWICE last year's output"

I join with other posters though in wondering what's gone on this year at BT? I hope these evaporative losses are a one-off and they don't have a systemic problem that's gone unnoticed for a long time.

[Old Dusty]

Just pondering the ways of the world here and doing a bit of basic math(always dangerous for me) but I think that the "evaporation loss" story is really a shorthand version of "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say. The rest of the story IMO is that we have hit the soft spot in production of wheated bourbon at BT and the end of the road for S-W and/or Bernheim stocks at BT's disposal. At least for the 20&23 year expressions.

History tells us that BT acquired the Weller line in 99 and started the joint venture with Van Winkle in 02. We also know the last year for W.L. Weller 19 was 02 (likely stocks acquired with the label) and that the WLW from 07 and 08 was distilled in 97(likely at BT). So there was some wheated production in 97 and very likely a ramp up in 99 and maybe again in 02 to support now Weller and Van Winkle lines. So while BT very well could have been making wheated on contract or otherwise prior to 97, they didn't put it in WLW(or even have a wheated BTAC at all in 03 or 04).

And that brings us back to basic math. If you stuck with me to this point , then I surmise it will be 2017(at the earliest) or 2019 before we see much volume in the PVW20. And longer than that for the 23. So get ready for yearly dire evaporation loss reports on the old VWs for the next 2-3 releases. Ok my head hurts. And I am ready to be corrected by Chuck and/or others with more solid info beyond my connecting of the dots.

[HOF44]

Didn't really want to start a new VanWinkle thread so I'm dropping this info in here. It is how the Virginia ABC is handling VanWinkle releases this year.

https://www.abc.virginia.gov/about/pvw-statement

[h=1]Processes for Pappy Van Winkle Products[/h]

Virginia ABC’s distribution and sale of products manufactured by Old Rip Van Winkle Distillery has recently prompted inquires. Because these products are in such short supply and high demand, the agency developed specific processes to ensure equitable availability.

We strive to be responsive and helpful when fulfilling requests, fielding questions and addressing concerns. Because we are dedicated to providing our customers with a pleasant shopping experience, we are always exploring ways to enhance processes and improve efficiency.

• The Old Rip Van Winkle Distillery items (referred to as Pappy Van Winkle or Pappy products) Virginia ABC carries include Family Reserve 20 Year, Family Reserve 15 Year, Special Reserve 12 Year and Old Rip Van Winkle 10 Year. Virginia ABC does not carry the Family Reserve 23 Year.
  
• Pappy products have always been desirable, but in the last 12 to 24 months, the demand has become overwhelming. Because of the extreme popularity of Pappy products and their very limited availability from the distiller, only a small number of customers in Virginia are able to purchase a bottle of any of the Pappy products in a given year.
  
• Virginia ABC has no control over the amount of Pappy products sent to the Commonwealth. In fall 2015, Virginia ABC was sent 1,986 bottles total of all Pappy items.
  

Pappy 20 Year Waiting List

• Prior to November 2014, Virginia ABC accepted names for a master waiting list for the Pappy 20 year product, the rarest of the Pappy items carried by Virginia ABC. This list is maintained at the central office, and customers could request to be added to the list by either contacting the central office or their store. As demand for the product increased, the anticipated time to fill an order approached five years.
  
• In November 2014, Virginia ABC stopped adding names to the waiting list for Pappy 20 year.
  
• As supply from the distiller allows, Virginia ABC will continue to honor the previous waiting list for Pappy 20 year by selling the bottles it receives each year to the customers on that list. Wherever the agency stops on the waiting list one year, it will pick up from that spot the next.
  
• Annually, the fulfillment process proceeds in this way: When the warehouse receives the allotment of the 20 year product each fall, Virginia ABC fills orders chronologically. Virginia ABC ships the bottle to the Virginia ABC store of the customer’s choosing. The customer is contacted by the store, with the product being held in the store stockroom until the customer arrives to purchase the bottle.
  
• If after several attempts Virginia ABC is unable to communicate to an individual that their allocated bottle of Pappy 20 year has arrived, or the customer never comes to purchase the product after being contacted, the store returns the bottle to the warehouse so that it may be sold to the next individual on the master list.
  
• No recent policy or procedure changes apply to the Pappy 20 year waiting list. Virginia ABC intends to sell Pappy 20 year to customers on the existing waiting list as the product becomes available, until the list is exhausted.
  
• Customers on this list must bear in mind that it may still be another four years before their order is completed.
  

Pappy 15, 12 and 10 Year Distribution and Availability

• In October 2015 a new statewide policy was established stating that Pappy 15, 12 and 10 year products will be shipped to Virginia ABC stores where they must be placed on the store shelf and sold on a first-come, first-serve basis.
  
• The store is not able to take names for any sort of wait or contact list and may not hold products.
  
• The policy also applies to licensees (restaurants and other organizations that hold a mixed beverage license to sell liquor) who may purchase Pappy products from Virginia ABC store shelves as those items are available. Licensees do not receive preference in distribution of Pappy products.
  
• Not all Virginia ABC stores receive Pappy products. Locations receive Pappy products based on store sales and customer traffic.
  
• Virginia ABC communicated this new policy on its social media sites. That message was posted before any Pappy products were delivered to Virginia ABC stores in October 2015.
  
• In the instances where a select number of Virginia ABC stores had a waitlist for the Pappy 15, 12 and 10 year products prior to the October 2015 policy creation, those stores were instructed to honor that list with whatever allotment they received.
  
• If Pappy 15, 12 or 10 year products remained after those stores sold the allocated bottles, those items were placed on the shelf and sold on a first come, first serve basis.
  
• If any names remain on the in-store wait listing for the Pappy 15, 12 and 10 year products after the 2015 distribution of items, customers on that waitlist will be notified that the 2015 allocation of product is complete and that the store list is being dissolved.
  
• In order to avoid confusion regarding what Pappy inventory is subject to an existing waitlist versus what is available on a first come, first served basis, Virginia ABC removed all Pappy products from the website.
  

One-Bottle Policy

• On October 24, 2015, Virginia ABC instituted a policy limiting purchases of the Pappy 15, 12 and 10 year products to one bottle per visit per customer. There are no restrictions on how many bottles a single customer may purchase in one day.
  

Additional Contact

• If customers are concerned that a specific store is not following these guidelines, we encourage them to contact CustomerService@abc.virginia.gov.
  

Updated October 29, 2015

[flahute]

There's a sticky thread "all things pappy...." at the top of this sub forum that might be a good spot for this info.

[HOF44]

There's a sticky thread "all things pappy...." at the top of this sub forum that might be a good spot for this info.

[flahute]

Ah yes, I see. You are correct.

[TunnelTiger]

I have 3 or 4 bottles in my basement stash that I haven't opened yet, saving them for retirement.

[fishnbowljoe]

Bumping this up to take care of things.

Joe

[Phischy]

Is it possible to determine the age of the bottle by the barcode/other means? I have one that I think is 6 to 8 years old and not sure if it's S/W juice.

[tanstaafl2]

Is it possible to determine the age of the bottle by the barcode/other means? I have one that I think is 6 to 8 years old and not sure if it's S/W juice.

Would depend on which of the Old Van Rippy Winkle Pappy's you have. Starting a few years ago most now have a laser code that can give an indication of age. Not sure exactly when that started. Around 2008 I think.

[Phischy]

PVW 15 and it has a barcode on the label.

[johnnybogey]

PVW 15 and it has a barcode on the label.

This site should help you decipher the year.

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2011/11/pappy-van-winkle-know-your-bottle-codes.html

[Louisiana]

One of my main stores said he was tired of jumping through the hoops he has to get Pappy. He had to put Taaka Vodka up in his store with a display. Bought barrels of Buffalo Trace. Still only got 10 & 12 year Van Winkle. No Pappy (15,20, or23) even made it to him. Although this isn't good news for loyal customers as myself, I do understand the frustration with the distributor. I'll be fine either way!

[tanstaafl2]

PVW 15 and it has a barcode on the label.

The regular barcode on the label is not likely to be very helpful. The code referred to in the post by Johnny is a printed code directly on the bottle that is often difficult to see without close examination. If there is no code then the bottle "might" be from the mid 2000's or perhaps somebody managed to wipe off the printed alphanumeric bottle code. Not sure how easy that is but anything is possible.

[Phischy]

Well that's interesting. I know for a fact it was purchased before 2011 because in March of that year I bought a house and Def couldn't afford this bourbon anymore. 2 years prior to that I was in a different apartment and was drinking only craft beer. And I don't think I bought any for the 2 years prior to that as this is when you could still sell collectible bottles on ebay and I was selling BTAC & PVW to pay for hardware. No one wanted to drink the high end bourbon with me so I started liquidating all my unopened bottles. That makes this prior to 07-ish and I don't recall seeing a stamp, but I also never really looked.

[HOF44]

I'm in Northern VA and have about 3 ABC stores within 3 miles and since the notice came out have been stopping by on shipment days. No luck and doubt I'll have any. Talking with some of the employees there seems to be a couple guys that know which store is getting something on the truck. They show up before the store opens and wait. Over 3 weeks they have picked the right store 3 times. Seems they have the scoop on whats going where. I like some of the Van Winkle stuff at retail, but damn if I'm camping out at a store to get it. To much other goodness out there.

Bourbon craze in full effect!

[Paddy]

Sounds like someone is in with the delivery driver. I may have to consider this option (for my future retirement job:grin:)...

[flahute]

Sounds like someone is in with the delivery driver. I may have to consider this option (for my future retirement job:grin:)...

Either that or they know someone at the distributor. The one time I got up super early to wait in line for Van Winkle the guy in line next to me had a text message from a friend who worked at the distributor and in the message was the bottle count of all the different ages coming to that store. She had seen the P.O. and seen them placed on the truck so we were told. We all took it with a grain of salt because you always hear tall tales in situations like these. When the manager finally opened the doors and told us how many of each they had........turns out the guy in line next to me was right.

[Underhilltab]

One of the most bizarre things happened to me over the last two days. I still can’t make sense of it. I work in a very large building, and yesterday at work hundreds of employees at my company were having their offices moved within the building. At about 5 pm, we were expected to have our belongings packed and ready for the moving crew who would take our stuff to the new office and have it ready for us by this morning. I took the opportunity to leave work a little early and figured I would swing by my favorite liquor store -- about a mile or so away.

I walked in and began my usual ritual of walking by the glass case in the front of the store on my way back to the bourbon shelves. I have it down to a science and, probably like many of you, can scan the case in a matter of seconds and spot anything new or interesting to me. Well, there was nothing new behind the glass. As I approached the bourbon area, a few things stood out right away. There were about 12 bottles of ETL on the shelf and right above them were about a half dozen Stagg Jr. bottles. As I got closer, I realized it was batch #5. Those two items were new in the couple days since I had last visited.

On the top shelf, right next to the Stagg Jr. and barely sticking out behind the last of 3 Angel’s Envy bourbon bottles was a PVW 15. The front label couldn’t’ escape my trained eye -- I saw the cigar sticking out of Pappy’s mouth. I put down the ETL and Stagg Jr. I had in each hand in a matter of seconds and lunged for the PVW. Right as my hand grasped it, I noticed that there was an empty spot about a foot over on the shelf that had a label under it that said “PVW 15: $119.99â€. I remember thinking simultaneously that I wonder why it wasn’t in the glass case up front and that it was an extremely reasonable price.

Before I could have another thought, though, a guy came from around the corner up into my face and ordered me to “give me [his] Pappyâ€. My rough estimation is that he was about 6’2†and 200 lbs. He was dressed in business casual attire, as was I. I was a little stunned and so I think I said, “excuse meâ€. He yelled, while spraying spit in my face, something like “you heard me, that’s my Pappy. I put it behind a few bottles on the shelf while I went to ask the clerk if he had any more. It’s mine and you know it.†I was trying to think quickly on my feet. It was behind a few bottles moved over on the shelf, but why wouldn’t he grab it first and then go ask the clerk a question? Did he see me grab it first and then spring into action or was he telling the truth? I really didn’t know. I wanted to be reasonable and probably would have handed it over if he had calmed down and explained himself rationally – especially since I frequent the store on a weekly basis, know the manager and several of the staff, and (full disclosure) had received some Pappy and BTAC from them in past years.

Unfortunately, I didn’t get a chance to hear him out. As we were playing Pappy tug o’ war each having two hands on the bottle, he lunged forward and head-butted me on my head. I, thankfully, moved fairly quickly to the side when I saw him coming forward but he is a big guy and I still caught a glancing blow on the side of my head. Partly because I was in utter shock, and partly because even the glancing blow hurt like hell, I collapsed to the floor. I let go of the PVW and I don’t know if he held it at that point or if it fell onto the shelf that was right next to us. Within seconds of me hitting the floor and reaching for my head to assess the damage, the most (to me at least) insane part of the episode ensued. He followed me to the ground and put me in a Ric Flair-like figure-four leg lock. He was screaming at the top of his lungs: “Whose Pappy is it now, biatch, whose Pappy is it now, biaaatch!†Out of the corner of my eye, I saw a girl – maybe his wife or girlfriend – running up toward the front registers with the Pappy in hand.

I don’t know if steroids, drugs, alcohol, or all of the above were involved but this guy clearly just lost it in a matter of seconds. I couldn’t believe how my fate had changed from just 20 minutes prior when I was in my car and deciding between heading home to the family early or stopping by the store. Even just 5 minutes before, I was content with ETL and Stagg Jr. For those of you who think the former WWF/current WWE is all fake, let me tell you that the figure-four, when applied with the full force of a large man behind it, is no joke. I had always heard that the body has trouble focusing on two discrete pain spots at once, and I can confirm it is true. My head felt no pain for the entirety of the leg lock. There was a part of me laughing hysterically inside that two grown men in work clothes were on the floor in a 1980’s wrestling hold in a retail store over one bottle of alcohol, but a much bigger part of me was overcome with tremendous pain and especially fear as I didn’t know of what else this man was capable.

The entire incident felt like 30 minutes, but was probably about 45 seconds and then two staffers and a middle-aged man, whom I later found out was looking for scotch on the neighboring shelves, jumped into the fray and pulled the guy off of me. They carried me into the back of the store and gave me ice for my head and asked if they should call for medical assistance. I declined. They told me that they called the police and were holding the guy and girl in the store until the police arrived. The woman at the register did not process the transaction when the girl brought the Pappy up to the register. The manager then appeared in the back room and profusely apologized. He said that they were planning to auction off some of their Pappy and BTAC allocation next week but that they decided to put one PVW 15, one Lot B, a GTS, and a Handy on the shelf today at different times just to spread the wealth to some random people. The manager said he intentionally put the bottles on the regular shelves, as opposed to in the glass case, to throw people off. He said they put the PVW 15 out there about 5 minutes before this nonsense all went down.

Then came the offer – the manager said that if I agreed to sign a waiver stating that I would not take any legal action against the store, he would make it worth my while. I asked him what that meant and if I would be signing away any rights to press charges against the guy. He said that the waiver would only relate to the store and that he would let me pick three Pappy bottles and 3 BTAC bottles “on the houseâ€! Since my head had a bump but seemed ok and there didn’t seem to be any ligament or cartilage damage to my legs – just scrapes and general pain – I agreed. Maybe not the smartest move, but the decision felt good in the moment. They did not have any PVW 23 and I asked about FRSmB LE 2015 and they didn’t have that either. So, I picked PVW 20, the subject bottle of PVW 15, and the VWFRR and 2 GTS and a Saz 18 (they did not have WLW or ER 17). He said I got 6 bottles out of a 14 bottle total allocation of Van Winkle and BTAC.

As I left the back room and started walking up to the front of the store, I could see that the guy and girl were up front with the cops. The cops stopped me and asked for a statement and then asked several questions for about 15 minutes. Luckily, there were a couple of witnesses who stepped forward and confirmed that I was completely the victim and non-aggressor. The store has video cameras as well. As I was leaving, I had to pass the guy who was seated in a chair in handcuffs while the cops finished some paperwork. I walked briskly toward the door, but then stopped right in front of him, flashed my box -in front of his eyes - with 6 trophies in it separated by those cardboard dividers – and then leaned in close to his ear and whispered very slowly but assertively: “Whose Pappy is it now, biatch.†The cop motioned his hand for me to keep going and I headed toward my car.

I called my wife from the car. She didn’t even believe my story. She just kept saying that I better not have paid for six premium bourbon bottles – even if at retail price. When I got home, she saw the knot on my head, my limp, and the disheveled clothing – so, I think she believes me now. I still don’t know if it was worth it. This may likely be the last year of the hunt for me. Too many things are more important in life than obtaining some liquid at that “costâ€.

When I got to work this morning, I arrived at my new office on a different floor and a different wing of the office complex. My assistant said she had met the other people in my corner of the floor already and she could introduce me. They were all from different departments within the organization – a company wide effort for people to get to know others outside of their immediate department in the hopes of encouraging more cross-functional interaction. I quickly said hello to a few new faces with my assistant and then when we got to the office next to my new one, I didn’t recognize the name on the name plate, but I absolutely recognized the person. It was THE GUY! The guy who head-butted me and had me in a figure four the day before on the floor of the retail store is now my office neighbor. Of all the places of employment in the immediate vicinity to the store and of all the thousands of employees in my building, how is this possible? Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that the story could have another twist. I quickly said that I had to get on a conference call and I disappeared into my office and didn’t emerge all day until I left for home tonight. He didn’t say a word to me all day, nor did I see him the rest of the day. I have no idea if he spent the night in jail or if he is out on bail or what he is being charged for, if anything. This whole thing is bizarre, funny, sick, sad, and ridiculous all at once . . .such is the bourbon boom!

[Golzee]

That has to be the craziest thing I have read on SB. First off, it is just bourbon, and, second, who puts another grown man in a figure four? Ric Flair would be proud...

[flahute]

Ummmm.....did I just read what I think I read? Is this even possible? Wow.......

[OutlawSW]

You should submit that to Readers Digest.... If it's still around. Either way, very entertaining read, thank you!