About All Things Pappy/VanWinkle

[nd2005]

Sadly, he won't have to wait long to find someone willing to pay at that price

[TunnelTiger]

sadly in another 10 to 20 years that price may be a bargain.

[Harry in WashDC]

This makes me happy.

I'm with you, Joe. Got a great chuckle out of this. I well remember the Lot B at about $50 and used to buy multiples at a time. Jello shots? My wife made them once with regular BT. Is the last time I literally fell down while eating. What goes around comes around.

[theglobalguy]

Local news covering one Louisville stores "Pappyfest" this evening. They held a raffle last year (just had to show up to get a ticket, no tied to purchases), guess it's grown this year so they're having food trucks, radio station DJ and containing to the parking lot instead of inside the store. Claiming they got a larger allocation than last year (no offense meant to the store in question, just not sure how they get anywhere near what they do). Expecting 1000+, supposed to take from 7:30-9PM this evening.

Another one of those damned if you do moments where there's no simple way to deal with the chaos...great advertising at the least, though i question how many will shop there in the future just because of the event.

[Jiggity]

The wife and I celebrated our 6'th anniversary last night at Alexander's steakhouse. They had the full pappy line up. I ordered the 15 after dinner and had it over a nice conversation. Midway, through the pour I thought to myself "this is VERY GOOD, but it's just whiskey."

I will definitely hunt around for a bottle, but there are lots of good bottles to hunt...not just PVW.

[bicktrav]

The wife and I celebrated our 6'th anniversary last night at Alexander's steakhouse. They had the full pappy line up. I ordered the 15 after dinner and had it over a nice conversation. Midway, through the pour I thought to myself "this is VERY GOOD, but it's just whiskey."

I will definitely hunt around for a bottle, but there are lots of good bottles to hunt...not just PVW.

I ordered Pappy 15 and 20 recently and had the same reaction as you. It's great stuff, but it's not incomparable. Funny enough, in the world of beer, I had the exact opposite experience when I tried Westvleteren 12. I thought this is not just beer; this is something otherworldly. There is no beer that compares to it.

[danz]

Westvleterin 12 is great. Have you also tried Rochefort 10 and Saint Bernardus Abt? They are both similar and very good, though not the same, and Saint Bernardus shares a history with Westvleterin: I believe they actually made Westvleterin for many years and still use the same yeast and other similar ingredients. I thought Westvleterin and Pappy 15 were similarly incredible the first time I had them. However, I also think they have similar levels of hype around them. I like a Rochefort 10 or a nice barrel strength Four Roses a similar amount and those are much less hassle to get.

[bicktrav]

Westvleterin 12 is great. Have you also tried Rochefort 10 and Saint Bernardus Abt? They are both similar and very good, though not the same, and Saint Bernardus shares a history with Westvleterin: I believe they actually made Westvleterin for many years and still use the same yeast and other similar ingredients. I thought Westvleterin and Pappy 15 were similarly incredible the first time I had them. However, I also think they have similar levels of hype around them. I like a Rochefort 10 or a nice barrel strength Four Roses a similar amount and those are much less hassle to get.

Yep. I've had them both and they are both exceptional, but I don't think they match up to Westvleteren. The flavors are very similar--dense and complex as can be--but Westvleteren manages to balance the depth and complexity with an effervescent quality that the others don't have. It somehow manages to be both heavy and crisp simultaneously. The thing is, I think there are whiskeys that are as good or better than Pappy. And even though Rochefort and St. Bernardus will get you close, Westvleteren is just in a league of its own. This is all, of course, just my humble opinion though.

[suntour]

Yeah, there's enough meat on the bone for the secondary market for sure. I'd have to look at it twice.

[squire]

The thing is, I think there are whiskeys that are as good or better than Pappy.

Of course there are and always have been. I clearly recall the days when AAA 10yr/86proof outsold 10/90 Van Winkle even though the Ancient Age was priced $2.00 a bottle higher.

[tanstaafl2]

Yep. I've had them both and they are both exceptional, but I don't think they match up to Westvleteren. The flavors are very similar--dense and complex as can be--but Westvleteren manages to balance the depth and complexity with an effervescent quality that the others don't have. It somehow manages to be both heavy and crisp simultaneously. The thing is, I think there are whiskeys that are as good or better than Pappy. And even though Rochefort and St. Bernardus will get you close, Westvleteren is just in a league of its own. This is all, of course, just my humble opinion though.

Ah, the "Pappy" of beers! I like the "W" as much as anyone and do my best to keep a few squirreled away if I can. It may well be harder to get than Pappy, at least for me! I will have to do a SBS again to reassess as I don't recall the crispness you noted. But given the regular availability and lower cost relative to Westvleteren I am sure happy to have the Rochefort 10 readily available when I want it!

Will have to explore St Bernardus again. Don't recall being that enamored with it. I do recall they do share some history as you note. This site talks about it a bit.

[dSculptor]

Well I opened up my PVW15 the other night, and had me a heavy pour of this juice for the first time.

First impression was: Wow this stuff is quite different from the other PVW"s, had a very unique nose and taste, as I let it breathe a bit more, it kept on changing, nose and taste, so then I had to have a SbS of some lot B. Then you could or at least I could get the relationship a bit more, was a bit unfair as I did not cut the 15 down to the lot B, (just couldn't do it.) But I could then tell some family resemblance, but still quite different between the two, Lot b much more smooth, I get that nice watery icy feel on the back side, where as the 15 just made my buds pop out , I like that feel where the juice just gets absorbed by your tongue and starts tingling and then stays in there for awhile afterwards where you can still suck on your tongue as if it where a bourbon sucker and still draw out those flavs, unlike the 12 which sort of just glides on over.

Then I just had to do it,....yep ..I vatted them.(50/50) Interesting enough to try it again some day and maybe let it meld a bit longer, but first impression (although still very good) I enjoyed them separately more. However the 15 just overwhelmed the 12 so next try would be at a different ratio, say 2:1 (12/15), I think that combo would be just right, and make an exceptional pour..the best of both worlds.

[kjbeggs]

Got a bottle of PVW15 during lunch today.

Had to choose between it or the 23 (they got 1 bottle of each).

I tend to like some oaky bourbons that others don't, but I went with the popular opinion that the 15 seems to be the Pappy sweet spot.

[Lepisto]

Does anyone know if the 20014 23YO is still Stitzel Weller? Doing the math it would have been barreled in 1991, one year before the distillery was sold, so it would appear so. Also I remember reading SKUs interview with Julian in 2012 that the 20YO would be the last 20YO from Stitzel Weller, but that the 23YO would still have a few years.

[nd2005]

Does anyone know if the 20014 23YO is still Stitzel Weller? Doing the math it would have been barreled in 1991, one year before the distillery was sold, so it would appear so. Also I remember reading SKUs interview with Julian in 2012 that the 20YO would be the last 20YO from Stitzel Weller, but that the 23YO would still have a few years.

I believe they said that last year would be the final year of all SW 23 year

[bicktrav]

My understanding is that the SW days are over. But your math has me intrigued. Does anyone know for sure?

[HD 335]

After finding a Fall release 2012 last week at a store I emailed Preston and he said that is a blend of SW and BT. I thought last year was the final year that the 23 contained SW, although it may also be a blend.

[nd2005]

After finding a Fall release 2012 last week at a store I emailed Preston and he said that is a blend of SW and BT. I thought last year was the final year that the 23 contained SW, although it may also be a blend.

Here is a source from last year:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?20774-Last-time-for-S-W-PVW23

[HD 335]

Here is a source from last year:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?20774-Last-time-for-S-W-PVW23

I didn't include that my 2012 is a 20 year not a 23. I'm still slightly skeptical what info Preston has been giving out about the provenance as it nears the final years of SW whiskey.

[nd2005]

I didn't include that my 2012 is a 20 year not a 23. I'm still slightly skeptical what info Preston has been giving out about the provenance as it nears the final years of SW whiskey.

I think that would make sense for a 2012 20 year.

My main skepticism is when he says it's a blend. 99% BT and 1% SW is technically a blend after all...

[HD 335]

Exactly, after he told me it was a blend, I decided to not save it for a really special time to open it. Will just crack it open when I feel like it.

[soonami]

Also, remember that there were other distilleries making wheated bourbon before SW closed and rumor was that Buffalo Trace was even contract distilled Wheater for SW during the transition to open New Bernheim. So there's no guarantee that anything from the last days before SW closed were distilled there. Moreover, Norton-Simon, Schenley, and United Distillers during the period they owned SW also bought out other distilleries and used their juice in SW labels (Stitzel Weller Canada Dry Bourbon) or bottled whiskey distilled elsewhere (JW Dant) at SW.

[squire]

I believe Julian posted some years ago that they tanked the whisky at age 23 to prevent it from spending any more time in barrel. That means the time of distilling would date back from the time of tanking.

I think there's a perception SW was a going enterprise up to the end and I don't believe that's the case. There was a hodge podge of activities going on there in the years prior to closing including in the late 1980s turning over the SW stills to making rye recipe Bourbon for the Kentucky Tavern label which was a brand leader at time

[nd2005]

I believe Julian posted some years ago that they tanked the whisky at age 23 to prevent it from spending any more time in barrel. That means the time of distilling would date back from the time of tanking.

I think there's a perception SW was a going enterprise up to the end and I don't believe that's the case. There was a hodge podge of activities going on there in the years prior to closing including in the late 1980s turning over the SW stills to making rye recipe Bourbon for the Kentucky Tavern label which was a brand leader at time

Tanked and for at least some of it, bottled well ahead of time. I think last year or the year prior, all of the bottle codes for the 23 indicated it had been bottled a year in advance of its eventual release.

[nd2005]

Slightly old article but I enjoyed this from the K&L blog: How (not) to get Pappy:

http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2014/10/11/opposite-day-or-how-not-to-get-pappy.html