Possible insights from Heaven Hill in the near term?

[tanstaafl2]

Attended a whiskey dinner put on by Heaven Hill last night and learned a few tidbits that might be of interest.

Pretty much already known that EC18 is making a return at an unknown but undoubtedly higher price point. May be some more EC23 released as well. But more interesting to me was news that Heaven Hill will also be releasing some 21yo whiskey that is more like an Orphan Barrel release. Apparently barrels acquired when HH bought Bernheim following the fire, it is a wheated bourbon that supposedly has a connection to Stitzel-Weller. What that connection is wasn't exactly clear and the age isn't right unless it got tanked at some point.

No surprise since it has been talked about here I think but the Old Fitz line is gone as the wheated bourbon used for it is all being shunted towards Larceny. Reportedly Larceny is a blend of 6 to 10yo whiskey mainly because they don't have enough older whiskey and need to supplement with the younger stuff.

Another curiosity which may not necessarily please everyone is that the PHC for 2015 reportedly will be a malt whiskey. Hmm. I did put in a request for a 10yo+ cask strength rye but it won't happen this year apparently.

And speaking of rye Heaven Hill is planning to revamp the Pikesville line as a Maryland style rye. But it will still use the Rittenhouse mashbill of 51% Rye, 39% Corn and 10% Malted Barley. Pikesville will be 6 years old compared to Rittenhouse at 4 years old. Pikesville 110 proof, Rittenhouse 100 proof. Both are stored on the 5^th floor and higher and Pikesville comes from Warehouse Y only. Rittenhouse comes from several Warehouses. Pikesville is to be a "Maryland Rye", Rittenhouse is the "Pennsylvania" Rye.

Perhaps the barrel management and age difference can give them a little different profile with the intent to make the Pikesville a bit softer and sweeter which is what I tend to think of as a Maryland style. But the mashbill is not really similar to the traditional mashbill of those styles of rye so it may be a bit more marketing than real difference. From what I can find Pennsylvania or "Monongahela" rye as a high rye mashbill like LDI/MGP rye and Maryland style was softer because it was less rye at maybe 70%. Rittenhouse has always been a third style, a bourbon "Kentucky style" rye to me.

But I would still be happy to see a 6yo 110 pf rye from Heaven Hill whatever style it might be, especially if it is at a competitive price. If it is $60-70 then it would be a bit disappointing.

[suntour]

Like many things in the bourbon world currently - sigh.

[squire]

Yes, a 6 year 110 proof Rye would be most welcome, irrespective of what they name it.

[sku]

Great report! I would assume the Bernheim connection to SW is that it was whiskey intended for the SW brands after UD closed the distillery. We know from Willett that those old Bernheim wheaters can be very, very good.

I'm skeptical about a PHC malt but very excited for a 110 proof Pikesville, whatever state they claim it's from (Don't they already call Pikesville a MD style rye?).

[luther.r]

I have a friend who has seen DSP-KY-16 barrels in the HH ricks, so it's possible there could be SW in the mix. That is, if those barrels actually contain SW distillate...

[sku]

I have a friend who has seen DSP-KY-16 barrels in the HH ricks, so it's possible there could be SW in the mix. That is, if those barrels actually contain SW distillate...

[KyleCBreese]

I'd welcome an Orphan Barrel type release as long as they told you what was in the bottle.

Let's hope if the PHC9 is a malt whiskey, it isn't anything like the Woodford attempts that got such awful reviews.

[mark fleetwood]

"Carefully aged in barrels made of wood, just like Stitzel Weller barrels are."

Sad to hear Old Fitz is being shown the door. BIB was always a nice simple go-to.

Edited January 16, 2015 by mark fleetwood

[tanstaafl2]

Great report! I would assume the Bernheim connection to SW is that it was whiskey intended for the SW brands after UD closed the distillery. We know from Willett that those old Bernheim wheaters can be very, very good.

I'm skeptical about a PHC malt but very excited for a 110 proof Pikesville, whatever state they claim it's from (Don't they already call Pikesville a MD style rye?).

[tanstaafl2]

I'd welcome an Orphan Barrel type release as long as they told you what was in the bottle.

Let's hope if the PHC9 is a malt whiskey, it isn't anything like the Woodford attempts that got such awful reviews.

[TunnelTiger]

Wow! Fantastic report. Here's hoping they follow through and don't gouge us too bad.

A 6 yr 110 proof rye that doesn't come from Indiana, just wow!

[RWBadley]

"Carefully aged in barrels made of wood, just like Stitzel Weller barrels are."

snip.

Heheh. I see no mention of LDI/MGP juice in there anywhere :cool:

[GaryT]

Thanks for the details Bruce! I won't be disappointed with a malt offering as PHC, depending upon the age and proof (do they have a malt offering out there that I'm not thinking of, or is this likely one of those "Tried something different - interesting enough to keep but not enough to create a brand/label"?) I thought that they would use the HHSS for those off-shoot experiments, but then again - maybe they've got a fair amount and looking to get feedback! I'm also excited about the Pikesville rye - if the price point isn't insane (considering where Ritt is, I'm hoping for $35ish, which is probably overly optimistic).

[mosugoji64]

Thanks for the report, Bruce! I'm interested in the Bernheim stuff but very sad to hear that they've abandoned Old Fitz. They just seemed to be hitting their stride with that line in the past 2-3 years. At least Larceny is good. Hope to see it on shelves here soon.

[jvd99]

I'd welcome an Orphan Barrel type release as long as they told you what was in the bottle.

Without the obfuscation, they won't truly be like the "Orphan Barrels"

[nd2005]

Assuming the price is right (which, based on HH's offerings except for the EC20-23, I presume it will be), a 6 yr 110 proof version of Rittenhouse (why don't they just use the existing brand instead of rebranding it??) would probably become my go-to rye to keep in the house at all times.

[TunnelTiger]

(why don't they just use the existing brand instead of rebranding it??)

No offense to any SB member marketing gurus but it's called job justification.

[dSculptor]

Hey , Thanks for the heads up! Still waiting for the EC18 to hit the shelves, I expect that it will not be below $100. I need another one though as I have been hitting mine very, very, slowly. Not so sure about the Malt thing, that sort of bums me out. Wonder why they would choose some thing like that, wouldn't think that there is a big market for that kind of stuff.

[nd2005]

No offense to any SB member marketing gurus but it's called job justification.

[dcbt]

I need to revisit Larceny one of these days. I always wondered about its age, good to know now. I haven't bought a bottle in over a year but I remember liking it.

[squire]

Just seems to me that the market is currently being flooded by new and unrecognizable labels.

[danz]

Hey , Thanks for the heads up! Still waiting for the EC18 to hit the shelves, I expect that it will not be below $100. I need another one though as I have been hitting mine very, very, slowly. Not so sure about the Malt thing, that sort of bums me out. Wonder why they would choose some thing like that, wouldn't think that there is a big market for that kind of stuff.

Edited January 18, 2015 by danz

[amg]

I never thought I'd be bunkering Old Fitz BiB, but :searching:

[Harry in WashDC]

Thanks for the report, Bruce! I'm interested in the Bernheim stuff but very sad to hear that they've abandoned Old Fitz. They just seemed to be hitting their stride with that line in the past 2-3 years. At least Larceny is good. Hope to see it on shelves here soon.

[danz]

For those of us without ready access to more traditional wheated bourbons (like OWA), Larceny does its job well - not as "homogenized" as MM for one thing. I, too, will miss Old Fitz, though.

I haven't had enough of the new Old Fitz to have much of an opinion. The 12 year did not really impress me and I don't think I ever saw any new BIB. However, it seems odd to abandon such a famous and long-standing brand. It would be as if GM decided to abandon the Cadillac brand and call all of the new cars in that line "Ninja Extreme Rebel Label," because it's edgy and won't seem too stodgy for the kids these days. I will say that I like the Larceny enough to buy a bottle one of these days, for a reasonable price.