Possible insights from Heaven Hill in the near term?

[The Boozer]

I have always enjoyed Old Fitz, although like many, have not seen it for a long time. My first wheater after MM. Hopefully is will be readily available in KY and not the needle in haystack scenario. We all know what what happened to AAA 10 year, which was also limited to KY.

[The Black Tot]

And speaking of rye Heaven Hill is planning to revamp the Pikesville line as a Maryland style rye. But it will still use the Rittenhouse mashbill of 51% Rye, 39% Corn and 10% Malted Barley. Pikesville will be 6 years old compared to Rittenhouse at 4 years old. Pikesville 110 proof, Rittenhouse 100 proof. Both are stored on the 5^th floor and higher and Pikesville comes from Warehouse Y only. Rittenhouse comes from several Warehouses. Pikesville is to be a "Maryland Rye", Rittenhouse is the "Pennsylvania" Rye.

Perhaps the barrel management and age difference can give them a little different profile with the intent to make the Pikesville a bit softer and sweeter which is what I tend to think of as a Maryland style. But the mashbill is not really similar to the traditional mashbill of those styles of rye so it may be a bit more marketing than real difference. From what I can find Pennsylvania or "Monongahela" rye as a high rye mashbill like LDI/MGP rye and Maryland style was softer because it was less rye at maybe 70%. Rittenhouse has always been a third style, a bourbon "Kentucky style" rye to me.

The above was an interesting read. At the same time I was reading about the upcoming Russell's Reserve Rye proof increase, and I noted that the mashbill, at 65% Rye, 23% corn and 12% barley malt is then, in theory, closer to the "Maryland style." It also touts being distilled to a lower proof, which is likely similar to olden timey ways. I'll have to contemplate this when I buy a bottle of the up-proofed RRR.

[Paddy]

Ummm... we've recently got Colonel Taylor (BT), WT, Town Branch, Beam, Woodford, Pikesville (HH) and all this great MGPI sourced rye coming at us. Is it just me, or is this not a pretty good time for rye lovers?

[TunnelTiger]

Ummm... we've recently got Colonel Taylor (BT), WT, Town Branch, Beam, Woodford, Pikesville (HH) and all this great MGPI sourced rye coming at us. Is it just me, or is this not a pretty good time for rye lovers?

[Spade]

I saw some claims that EC12 was going to drop its age statement. Or, that the age was moving to the back label in anticipation of eventually dropping it. On the one hand, this would surprise me because HH seems to be adding rather than dropping age statements lately with Bernheim and Pikesville. On the other hand, I wouldn't be that surprised because that seems to be the nature of the times.

I searched the TTB database and didn't see an application for a label without the age statement. I assume they'd need to get a new label approved if they dropped the age statement, but it's more than possible that I'm mistaken on that point.

[suntour]

Supposedly still has the age statement on the back, but for how long, one must wonder.

With Fighting Cock going NAS, it wouldn't surprise me in the least, and as was speculated, it sure opens up a lot of barrels for the next few years' release of EC18 (at $125)

[T Comp]

I saw some claims that EC12 was going to drop its age statement. Or, that the age was moving to the back label in anticipation of eventually dropping it. On the one hand, this would surprise me because HH seems to be adding rather than dropping age statements lately with Bernheim and Pikesville. On the other hand, I wouldn't be that surprised because that seems to be the nature of the times.

I searched the TTB database and didn't see an application for a label without the age statement. I assume they'd need to get a new label approved if they dropped the age statement, but it's more than possible that I'm mistaken on that point.

This rumour was shot down by Larry Kass to Fred Minnick a year ago. I only read a few people in the wide wide world of whisk(e)y blogging but where have you seen these claims Spade? http://whiskyadvocate.com/whisky/2014/04/18/burning-down-the-rumor-mill/

[Kartofel]

I just saw that photo on another forum. Wouldn't they need a new COLA for that label? I haven't been able to find it on the TTB's website.

[Josh]

I'm starting to think liquor stores are stirring up these rumors to create panic buying.

[Spade]

I saw the same photo on Twitter. Wasn't sure if it was the most reliable source so I headed over here to see what others had heard. I, too, looked on TTB and found nothing.

Given that they just shut down the rumor a year ago, I'm assuming that's still the case for now.

And as for EC18, I'm optimistic it will be closer to $100 (or maybe even less) rather that $125. I guess we'll see later this year.

[mark fleetwood]

Supposedly still has the age statement on the back, but for how long, one must wonder.

With Fighting Cock going NAS, it wouldn't surprise me in the least, and as was speculated, it sure opens up a lot of barrels for the next few years' release of EC18 (at $125)

. Fighting Cock is going NAS? Really??

[BigBoldBully]

Dang, this is really starting to get good. Just close your eyes and buy any bottle--next week it will likely be a dusty. Gotta admit I was almost disappointed when FC6 didn't go NAS after I stocked up on it a couple years ago. But now that I'm down to the last 3 or 4 liters, guess it may be time for a restock.

[garbanzobean]

Anybody here have photo editing skillz? I don't have a lot, but the EC "NAS" on the right looks photoshopped to me.

[Auracom]

Hard to be sure if this is the real deal, but I will likely pick up a few extra's anyway. I also emailed HH directly to see if they might verify this.

Elijah Craig is the most important brand for me in all of bourbon. If they mess with this one... it would make me question any further time or effort spent in this hobby.

Edit - showed my wife that picture with the new label in-question. She works with photoshop daily. Can't say for sure if this one's fake but did say it would be very easy to alter based on the label on the left.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Auracom

[garbanzobean]

Hard to be sure if this is the real deal, but I will likely pick up a few extra's anyway. I also emailed HH directly to see if they might verify this.

Elijah Craig is the most important brand for me in all of bourbon. If they mess with this one... it would make me question any further time or effort spent in this hobby.

Edit - showed my wife that picture with the new label in-question. She works with photoshop daily. Can't say for sure if this one's fake but did say it would be very easy to alter based on the label on the left.

Thanks for emailing them. Best way to get to the bottom of this, hands down.

I could easily be wrong (just ask my wife), but the "NAS" bottle looks like someone just merged the features of EC12 and ECBP with photoshop. Even if HH changes the design of the label (hopefully to something else. Because that redesign , if that's what it is, is not terribly creative or good looking), it would be odd for them to drop the age statement as opposed to raising prices or decreasing availability. I feel like there are so many other bourbons HH would drop the age statement on prior to doing it to EC12.

One other observation I find humorous: people on Facebook (maybe the internet as a whole outside of SB) appear to be incapable of looking on the back of a bottle for age statements. I've got mixed feelings as to whether the practice is deceptive or not when an age statement is moved from the front to the back, but it is what it is I guess.

[signde]

. Fighting Cock is going NAS? Really??

yep, bought a bottle recently. no age statement to be found, not even in small print or back label.

[signde]

Anybody here have photo editing skillz? I don't have a lot, but the EC "NAS" on the right looks photoshopped to me.

i worked as a graphic designer for years and still have a mastery of photoshop. i could have made that label on the right. having said that, it's pretty good if it's fake and that's rather far to go just to start a rumor. also what strikes me is the change in color of the word small batch from black to red. i'm not sure if someone making a fake would add that detail.

[Josh]

People go very far to start rumors especially when there's money involved.

[garbanzobean]

Ironically, I would probably like EC and ECBP better if HH knocked a few years off of their age. But I think it best for us to give the distillery a chance to answer the email.

[johnnybogey]

What's odd is the copyright symbol located top right of the "G" in the barrel proof picture on the right. This doesn't appear on the 12 year bottle or barrel proof. Maybe this is legit?

Curious to hear what HH has to say.

[dSculptor]

I for one will be greatly disappointed if this happens, why can't they just leave well enough alone, now FC is also losing its AS? What in the world is the whisky business coming to?

[squire]

What in the world is the whisky business coming to?

It may have already arrived.

[flahute]

Someone skilled in photoshop (like the people I work with) could make that NAS label in 5 minutes and make it totally realistic. It's not hard at all. There are plenty of people out there who would do this just to be a troll. Between reddit and all the facebook groups there's plenty of fertile ground in which to drop a photo like this and then sit back and watch the handwringing.

Better to let HH confirm or deny before getting worked up.

[garbanzobean]

Someone skilled in photoshop (like the people I work with) could make that NAS label in 5 minutes and make it totally realistic. It's not hard at all. There are plenty of people out there who would do this just to be a troll. Between reddit and all the facebook groups there's plenty of fertile ground in which to drop a photo like this and then sit back and watch the handwringing.

Better to let HH confirm or deny before getting worked up.

[amg]

I haven't seen anything like the dip in quality with EC12 that I have with ER.