The types of "Flippers" or is there even a difference?

[Tony Santana]

People here and other sites love to hold themselves out as some sort of purist whose love o' the whiskey makes them better than the other guys out there chasing the same bottles.

I love the smell o' the whiskey. I love the taste o' the whiskey. I love the buzz o' the whiskey. I love the lore, the community, the rituals, the friends I've made and the good times I've had. That's why I've gotten into it, not to make a quick buck at the expense of a fellow seeker. Doesn't necessarily make me a better person, but I still disdain flipping. If that makes me a "purist" I embrace it, even though I gladly admit I don't know as much as many here, nor may I have as sophisticated a palate.

[squire]

I love the whisky, the history, the lore and the company. I will also cheerfully trip the guy in line who loudly announces how much he's gonna make by flipping the bottle.

[The Black Tot]

I have also seen the polar opposite of the selfishness of flipping - where people bring unicorns out of nowhere and place them on a table for people to try, some of whom they don't even know.

Once you've been in the presence of that, it becomes pretty clear that selfishness and blue books just aren't where it's at in this hobby.

[BigBoldBully]

I have also seen the polar opposite of the selfishness of flipping - where people bring unicorns out of nowhere and place them on a table for people to try, some of whom they don't even know.

Once you've been in the presence of that, it becomes pretty clear that selfishness and blue books just aren't where it's at in this hobby.

Here, here. Most of my "special" bottles are waiting around in order to be shared with those who may enjoy the experience. Not necessarily unselfish of me, though, I guess--just more fun that way.

[squire]

I have also seen the polar opposite of the selfishness of flipping - where people bring unicorns out of nowhere and place them on a table for people to try, some of whom they don't even know. . . . .

Well said and I think that speaks for most of us here.

[Paddy]

Well said and I think that speaks for most of us here.

Amen! :pope:

The only reason I regret passing on literally thousands of Old Rip's back in the day is that I would now be in a position to share more of it with friends, most of whom will likely never have the opportunity to enjoy it as it was in its heyday.

I just thought $30 was too gosh darn expensive...when I could have age stated ER and WT 101 for much less. :eek:

Where was the crystal ball when I needed it?:searching:

[johnnybogey]

I have also seen the polar opposite of the selfishness of flipping - where people bring unicorns out of nowhere and place them on a table for people to try, some of whom they don't even know.

Once you've been in the presence of that, it becomes pretty clear that selfishness and blue books just aren't where it's at in this hobby.

[flahute]

Well said and I think that speaks for most of us here.

Yes to this. I have benefitted from this generosity and have tried to bestow it on others.

[RWBadley]

Amen! :pope:

The only reason I regret passing on literally thousands of Old Rip's back in the day is that I would now be in a position to share more of it with friends, most of whom will likely never have the opportunity to enjoy it as it was in its heyday.

I just thought $30 was too gosh darn expensive...when I could have age stated ER and WT 101 for much less. :eek:

Where was the crystal ball when I needed it?:searching:

They were pretty tasty. You didn't miss much. At the time we knew others to be better.

Even now, bourbon is as good and better. The hype for Pappy or Rip is huge.

Other day day I suddenly realized the 22$ barrel pick 1792 from my local was in-freakin credible

Take it where you find it

Edited September 25, 2015 by RWBadley

[dSculptor]

It's all the same. People who try to make a distinction between "flippers" and "swappers" are doing it to try and make themselves feel better or separate themselves through some artificial moral line. People here and other sites love to hold themselves out as some sort of purist whose love o' the whiskey makes them better than the other guys out there chasing the same bottles.

But if you look at the root cause, it's the exact same. You "swap" for the same reason others "flip": to turn your bottles into something more desirable. Whether that more desirable something is cash or a more expensive/rare/desirable bourbon is an artificial distinction.

I'm gonna have to agree with this mentality, A guy who goes into a LS and clears out a shelf strictly for himself or to bunker it, REALLY is no different than your "flippers" the latter that at least the flipper ..the stuff will be made available to others but at a price, the only real difference is one is legal the other is not. Everything in this world that you go out and buy has been "flipped" one way or another. Your local LS guy does it for a living,but has a license to do so, making it alright.

What about these LS's that have a license and get these LE's delivered right to their door, and is expected to sell them at or close to MSRP, but instead jumps on the wagon and puts some unrealistic or absurd prices on these bottles, I've seen it and I'm sure there are plenty of others that have seen this practice as well, what do we call this guy? At least your so called "Flipper" for the most part puts in a lot of time and effort to acquire these bottles. Let's say he gets a license to resell it...now we can call him a "Bourbon Broker" now it's ok?

I know it has gotten very frustrating nowadays searching out and acquiring these rarities, but we cant blame it on the "flippers". I believe it's getting harder for these guys also, especially with LS's now putting limits on certain bottles and has for the most part - "you got to know somebody" to get one, I know that from talking to a lot of the owners out there that they wont even sell you one if aren't a "regular". I think and this is only my opinion that these flippers out there that have supply of these LE's are actually LS owners selling them on the black market under a.k.a.'s. I mean how else does one get your hands on so many?

Any way I'm at the point where I really don't give a crap one way or the other ..I'm good with my occasional RHF and my regular KC, if I get a call from one of my LS's for a special release.. I'm flabbergasted, but my days of hounding are over, although I must say it was fun a few years back.

I'm a flipper or collector of stoneware and street lights (mainly a collector, rarely do I sell) but they are intended as an investment and the best part of this is the -- HUNT, I'll miss it .... Ok, maybe I still hound .... a little, it's in the blood, that reminds me I need to go make an "appearance" at one of my sources.....

[Renegator]

I have also seen the polar opposite of the selfishness of flipping - where people bring unicorns out of nowhere and place them on a table for people to try, some of whom they don't even know.

Once you've been in the presence of that, it becomes pretty clear that selfishness and blue books just aren't where it's at in this hobby.

Couldn't have been better said. Well played, sir!

[MOwhisky4me]

I am a man of limited financial resources (state gov't employee with college kids!) so I don't ever have the option of walking in and clearing a shelf of high dollar offerings. I also don't typically buy enough to be the premium offerings call list for my local vendors. I do try to intelligently utilize my resources to grab a bottle of something special now and then though. The hunt is fun and the find is even more fun and exciting! I buy to enjoy my bourbon and share that lovely elixir with friends and family.

So with that being said, the shelf clearing flipper certainly is not on my Christmas card list! Nor is the guy who stocks his bar with premium labels simply to impress his buddies while he really prefers wine to bourbon anyway. There are numerous types of bourbon bubble influences I could list here... We all play a part in why certain bourbons are ridiculously hard to find.

However, who am I to begrudge anyone their slice of the bourbon ball? I'd love to have the resources and ability to grab the labels I want, but I don't. The guy who does is simply living in the market that has been created and enabled. To a degree it's the American way!

I'm not siding with the flippers... Wish that would stop... But until people are unwilling to pay $200 for a $75 bottle of bourbon it will simply keep happening regardless of how much we bitch about it.

[-icon-]

I have also seen the polar opposite of the selfishness of flipping - where people bring unicorns out of nowhere and place them on a table for people to try, some of whom they don't even know.

Once you've been in the presence of that, it becomes pretty clear that selfishness and blue books just aren't where it's at in this hobby.

Yep.

I don't have any unicorns by any means, but I frequently bring a few bottles of whatever decent stuff I can find(W12, VSOF, OSSA7, ETL, etc) to gatherings and set it out on the counter/bar for open tasting. When asked, I try to share my limited knowledge about the differences between each.

Downside is I've had a guy rave about "You have Elmer T Lee? I can't find that anywhere", then pour himself 3-4oz of it and top if off with 6-7oz of Sprite. I secretly hate that guy but don't say anything unless he comes back up for seconds.

But for every one of those guys, there are half dozen guys who will pour a finger of one or two bottles and be very appreciative. I kinda enjoy trying to grow the hobby within my network of friends. Maybe someday they'll get ahold of something great and share it with me

It's usually a fun experience to share, in any event.

[TunnelTiger]

Great thread. Flippers are the scum of the earth. As for traders more power to you.

I'm neither and even if a certain bottle doesn't hit my sweet spot I'm drinking every drop myself.

[smokinjoe]

Flippers are the scum of the earth.

You sure you want to go that far? I mean, I could PM you a pretty lengthy list of "flippers" that you "know" on here, and I'm not sure what you might think, then...:skep:

[old_timer]

Seems it should be simple enough since we all share the same passion. If you are going to drink it, buy it. If you are going to flip or trade, why not keep it on the shelf for a fellow enthusiast? Assuming you buy all of something in an entire area just to trade, you are still putting your fellow SBers in a tough spot. I've been drinking bourbon for over 10 years and I've never had any of the BTAC, Pappy, or many other rare bourbons. I will keep hunting, but I wish those that have plenty of each "bunkered" would consider the other guys. Looking forward to the production yields in another 10 -15 years. We should all be happy campers then

[GaryT]

To each their own. Is it frustrating that I can't walk into a store and pick up some of the "fall classics" because there are people stalking the distributor deliveries for the sole purpose of buying and immediately reselling at a huge profit? Sure. Anything I can do about it? Nope - not a damn thing. Other than not support them buy paying outrageous prices for current LEs.

I do think that there is a distinction between "flippers" and folks who have bought bottles throughout their journey, and now find themselves with more than they need (or might ever drink!) Taking advantage of market conditions makes sense, and I don't begrudge them. They're not the ones preventing us from picking up our favorites this time of year.

I remind myself of something I heard somewhere along the line (I think it may have been Stephen Covey): Responsibility is the ability to choose your response. I can choose to be pissed off and bitter over the present reality. Or, I can choose to not be. That choice will have zero impact on what others do, but it has a huge impact on whether I'm enjoying life, or simmering.

It's too damn short to simmer for very long

[smokinjoe]

...Is it frustrating that I can't walk into a store and pick up some of the "fall classics" because there are people stalking the distributor deliveries for the sole purpose of buying and immediately reselling at a huge profit?

[mbroo5880i]

Country, the "stalkers" aren't the reason that you/me/we can't walk into a store and pick up one of those bottles off of the shelf. Even if "they" had no chance to get them, there are thousands of "us" who are. Things being as they are, the "us" list is very, very, long.

[GaryT]

Country, the "stalkers" aren't the reason that you/me/we can't walk into a store and pick up one of those bottles off of the shelf. Even if "they" had no chance to get them, there are thousands of "us" who are. Things being as they are, the "us" list is very, very, long.

Great point, although it feels like they are a significant contributor to the challenge. There is a striking difference with many of "us" in that if we stumble upon really hard to find whiskey that we don't necessarily need/want (or we only want one bottle and they have three) - rather than take the easy money opportunity presented, we point fellow enthusiasts to it. But you're absolutely right that the number of folks looking to drink it is increasing at a rate far beyond the production of those same hard-to-get bottles - so even if the flipping subsides, it will likely never return to what it once was.

I take comfort in the volume of really great whiskey that is still readily available on the shelf

[koRn]

The straight up flippers. The ones who post pics in the parking lot. Or buy a bottle and immediately ask just how much worth there is in the secondary market annoy the living bejezus out of me.

Now the guys who sell bottles for C+S or a very small mark up for there time say a 10 dollar up charge I have no problems with. Or the ones who trade bottles for something they want to someone who has zero chance of findin f that bottle. I think those guys are doing a service to people like me who live in a market that doesn't see the super premium bottles.

[GAbiker]

I see a difference between enthusiasts that get an extra bottle of allocated bourbon to trade for something they can't find vs. people buying bottles with no interest in anything but reselling for a profit.

A different perspective....as GM of a liquor store, I HATE THIS TIME OF YEAR

Multiple calls from random people that have never been to the store asking if we have _________ (fill in the blank)

Having to disappoint regular customers because we only get 1 bottle of ____________ (fill in the blank), and not a single bottle of _________(fill in the blank).

Hearing Sales reps stories of woe because they only get 10 bottles of _________(fill in the blank) for their 35 store accounts.

And I personally don't purchase a single bottle of any of the allocated bottles we get at the store. I work to hard all year long to build relationships with customers to do that. So if I'm going to get a bottle of any of the BTAC or anything else I'll have to search for it. and not going to do that.

[PaulO]

I remember one store in KY posted on their outdoor sign that they didn't have nor would they get any VW. The owners got tired of all the phone calls and all the obnoxious people just constantly bothering them.

[Zeroghost]

A flipper is essentially a speculator. Speculators inflate the price of the items they are flipping to prices exceeding that objects value. They are vultures tilting the scales of an otherwise healthy free market. As long as there are customers willing to pay the inflated prices for Bourbons they cannot otherwise purchase on their own, the secondary market will flourish. The moment people stop paying the inflated prices marks the peak of the bourbon boom. That will not happen in the immediate future.

[Flyfish]

I remember one store in KY posted on their outdoor sign that they didn't have nor would they get any VW. The owners got tired of all the phone calls and all the obnoxious people just constantly bothering them.

Now, see, in OH our merchants never have to deal with all that bother. As far as we know, VW is just a car.