The types of "Flippers" or is there even a difference?

[BigBoldBully]

The above comments should inspire someone to make a nice multipurpose sign, particularly given VW's deplorable behavior that has recently come to light (the car company, not the bourbon).

[Harry in WashDC]

While writing a post over on the "has the boom peaked" thread, smokinjoe got me thinking. Some of my behavior approaches obsessive behavior and looks a lot like flipper behavior. Some posts here seem to say (ostensibly/essentially/implicatorily) that my behavior is OK and could even be venerated and emulated because my motives are "pure" while the similar behavior of flippers should be detested as a satire on bourbon etiquette.

I have never traded a bottle I owned for a bottle I wanted. I also have never purchased a bottle I wanted from anyone other than a commercial enterprise in a bona fide commercial transaction. However, I have been lucky enough to know an SBer or two who works for a retailer who, in an arms' length transaction (i.e., MSRP & I waited like everybody else to see what came in), sold me ONE bottle at a time of something really nice. On the other hand, I have never SOLD a bottle I was disappointed with (meaning that I do have a few clunkers on the shelves). BUT, I have given a few of those to people whom I know will appreciate what they are getting. The others? Maybe when I die, somebody will sell them, lawfully, at auction.

But what's the difference between a flipper who drives around and scarfs up seasonal releases and me when I drive around and scarf up seasonal releases? He/she may sell them to somebody who doesn't have the time/opportunity to drive around like me while I put them on my shelves, revel in having them, feel warm inside when I look at them, and, ultimately, consume them with a feeling of rising satisfaction. The result is the same, however: the number of bottles on the store shelf is diminished. And while I don't clear shelves, I still buy more than I can consume in a reasonable amount of time. [ASIDE: But as Shoshani wrote in another context on some thread with a name lost in the mist of my memory), I intend to drink, "EVERY SINGLE ONE'" (my caps.)]

So, let's not condemn some warm bodies (e.g., flippers) for a behavior, in which we also engage (i.e., purchasing), that precipitates a result (empty shelves and shortages) experienced by all, especially those who cannot troll stores during the daytime near deliveries. Instead, let's only condemn scalping and ill-gotten booty. And, of course, we should condemn noncommercial resales of alcoholic beverages which is illegal. You think the law is stupid? Fine. Change it. First. THEN, what are we going to complain about?

[squire]

I have never flipped a bottle and I never will, because I have none to flip having drank them all.

I like the comment attributed to George Saintsbury who said the executors of his estate would find his wine cellar empty.

[Josh]

My biggest problem with flippers (as the archives will show) is when they say they're just trying to "spread the love" and make sure everyone who wants a limited bottle gets one.

No, they're trying to make money. Can't knock the hustle, but don't nominate yourself for sainthood when you're engaging in simple profiteering.

[Harry in WashDC]

I have never flipped a bottle and I never will, because I have none to flip having drank them all.

I like the comment attributed to George Saintsbury who said the executors of his estate would find his wine cellar empty.

RE: what good old George said: I can guarantee you that the auction I referenced may or may not have anything to auction; I am doing my best to make it so.

[Fort Knox]

I'll admit to having grabbed multiples when I've happened upon either W12 or ETL a couple of times, but I have not sold a single one of those bottles. I've also never purchased a bottle on the secondary market. I did recently buy a bottle of ECBP at a premium above MSRP, but it was from a liquor store in Florida that ships to NC, and the only reason I was willing to pay what I did was because I've been looking for a bottle of ECBP for 2 years unsuccessfully. The $25 premium I paid was well worth it to me. I don't think I'd pay it regularly, but if I go another 2 years before I see another bottle, you can bet your ass I'll do it again.

[oke&coke]

I have also seen the polar opposite of the selfishness of flipping - where people bring unicorns out of nowhere and place them on a table for people to try, some of whom they don't even know.

Once you've been in the presence of that, it becomes pretty clear that selfishness and blue books just aren't where it's at in this hobby.

That right there is why we are hobbyists. The camaraderie.

[dustyj]

Flipper's pay their rent with the proceeds.....Enthusiasts give back the proceeds to acquire.

Edited October 4, 2015 by dustyj

[Tony Santana]

Flipper's pay their rent with the proceeds.....Enthusiasts give back the proceeds to acquire.

I don't care what they're doing with the money, a flipper is a flipper. And I doubt there are many who are paying the rent doing it. With the true enthusiasts (those buying it to drink it) well outnumbering the flippers, there are only so many unicorns to go around to make a living at it. Pretty hard to pay the rent turning $30 bottles of ETL over for $60.

[old_timer]

ETL aside, flippers can easily pay several months rent with effort during bourbon season. Secondary prices are starting to inch toward 3x - 4x of retail, which is a lot of profit on your BTAC and Pappy bottles. I'm sure it's mostly broke college kids, but it's still annoying as hell. I miss the days of readily accessible bourbon and flippers camping for beanie babies and elmo toys.

[amg]

ETL aside, flippers can easily pay several months rent with effort during bourbon season. Secondary prices are starting to inch toward 3x - 4x of retail, which is a lot of profit on your BTAC and Pappy bottles. I'm sure it's mostly broke college kids, but it's still annoying as hell. I miss the days of readily accessible bourbon and flippers camping for beanie babies and elmo toys.

I can tell you from experience that effort alone doesn't score you full lineups of BTAC and VW anymore. These guys are connected somehow.

[old_timer]

I can tell you from experience that effort alone doesn't score you full lineups of BTAC and VW anymore. These guys are connected somehow.

Assuming you throw a cash tip at a disributor or store employee, I'm sure it's well worth everyone's while. Like all things, the panic will pass. I can only hope that the uptick now means high yields of excellent product in the future.

[SlowMash]

I can only hope that the uptick now means high yields of excellent product in the future.

That's what I keep telling myself too. I'm kinda assuming there may be a glut of excellent product to enjoy at some point in the future, but I'm not as confident the prices will drop back down to "normal" levels. My a bourbon/rye habit, even with just the standard session drinkers (which is the majority I pretty much buy nowadays), is considerably more expensive than it was only 4-5 years ago.

[amg]

When you consume a luxury product, you should never expect the price to go down, even as demand softens.

[squire]

The question I ask is whether this is a luxury product or a luxury package. The first always commands a premium while the second often isn't worth it. Am I buying to appreciate it or to show it off. My money, my choice either way.

[B.B. Babington]

The question I ask is whether this is a luxury product or a luxury package. The first always commands a premium while the second often isn't worth it. Am I buying to appreciate it or to show it off. My money, my choice either way.

If everyone else wants it, I want it too.

[squire]

I understand the feeling, everybody wants to be the head Lemming.

[Senor Harvey]

Flippers are the scum of the earth.

You sure you want to go that far? I mean, I could PM you a pretty lengthy list of "flippers" that you "know" on here, and I'm not sure what you might think, then...:skep:

I would like to know who are the members on here who are "flippers" so I know who to avoid helping out finding a bottle of bourbon when they ask and who not to ask for favors, since they are in it for the money and not for the bourbon.

I have learned a lot since joining this forum and one thing is to spread the love of bourbon and avoid all the hype.

[mark fleetwood]

I would like to know who are the members on here who are "flippers" so I know who to avoid helping out finding a bottle of bourbon when they ask and who not to ask for favors, since they are in it for the money and not for the bourbon.

I have learned a lot since joining this forum and one thing is to spread the love of bourbon and avoid all the hype.

Yikes, not sure we want to get into a finger-pointing campaign, not that I have anything to hide. Mods might have a comment.

[Louisiana]

I would like to know who are the members on here who are "flippers" so I know who to avoid helping out finding a bottle of bourbon when they ask and who not to ask for favors, since they are in it for the money and not for the bourbon.

I have learned a lot since joining this forum and one thing is to spread the love of bourbon and avoid all the hype.

I would like to know also. Senor Harvey has a very valid point.

Can you PM me a list smokinjoe? Just for future reference!

[smokinjoe]

I would like to know who are the members on here who are "flippers" so I know who to avoid helping out finding a bottle of bourbon when they ask and who not to ask for favors, since they are in it for the money and not for the bourbon.

I have learned a lot since joining this forum and one thing is to spread the love of bourbon and avoid all the hype.

Nobody cares what anyone does with their whiskey, least of all me. Just, don't try to sell it on SB. That's the Boss' Rule. Some folks think they can slyly and passively solicit, here. And, do it repeatedly. This site is not a sales channel.

Edited November 30, 2015 by smokinjoe

[Josh]

I'm not a fan of flipping and I try to avoid dealing with flippers. That said, I have friends who have engaged in flipping. I don't think that makes them bad people, just people with philosophical differences.

[Louisiana]

I'm not a fan of flipping and I try to avoid dealing with flippers. That said, I have friends who have engaged in flipping. I don't think that makes them bad people, just people with philosophical differences.

I understand completely Josh, but I'm sure you don't give your friends who flip your resources for acquiring bottles.

They may be absolutely fantastic, but you might talk about whiskey a little different with them because of that knowledge?

Maybe not. Just my outlook on the situation!

[Old Dusty]

Nobody cares what anyone does with their whiskey, least of all me.

[Josh]

I understand completely Josh, but I'm sure you don't give your friends who flip your resources for acquiring bottles.

They may be absolutely fantastic, but you might talk about whiskey a little different with them because of that knowledge?

Maybe not. Just my outlook on the situation!