Old Grand Dad rumor

[Paddy]

1 hour ago, mbroo5880i said:

 

I was at high volume store over the weekend.  They had plenty of OGD114 and OGDBIB.  The OGDBIB was on sale for $15.99.    If you bought 6 or more bottles, the price would have been $13.59.  I bought OGD114.  

At that price, I'd have pulled the trigger for a six shooter of the BIB... 

 

...and thrown a 114 in for good measure! 

 

P. S. The BIB was $19 and change in one of my local big box stores today!

 

 

[BDanner]

If this rumor turns out to be true, should we blame Bulleit and not Basil Hayden? If it's true, as many have suggested, that Bulleit is now sourcing from Beam since their 4Roses  agreement lapsed, the logical juice would be the only high rye expression they have, OGD. Since Bulleit's change in sourcing we've seen OGD & OGD BIB receive face lifts and price increases, as well as the disappearance of OGD in 1.75 size. If OGD 114 does go away with no new BH's this would definitely seem to be a reallocation of high rye to the Bulleit line. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by BDanner
Typo

[squire]

31 minutes ago, BDanner said:

 If OGD 114 does go away with no new BH's this would definitely seem to be a reallocation of high rye to the Bulleit line. 

This could well be the case.

[GaryT]

10 hours ago, BDanner said:

If this rumor turns out to be true, should we blame Bulleit and not Basil Hayden? If it's true, as many have suggested, that Bulleit is now sourcing from Beam since their 4Roses  agreement lapsed, the logical juice would be the only high rye expression they have, OGD. Since Bulleit's change in sourcing we've seen OGD & OGD BIB receive face lifts and price increases, as well as the disappearance of OGD in 1.75 size. If OGD 114 does go away with no new BH's this would definitely seem to be a reallocation of high rye to the Bulleit line. 

 

Very thoughtful post.  We heard from Beam while doing a barrel pick that they were working on Basil options for private selections (which typically means a retail offering along the same lines).  But we also heard it would be ready shortly - and it wasn't in April (and I think our Chairman & CEO checked since for a possible September option, and they still weren't ready).

 

While I'll hate not getting OGD 114, I'd rather lose it to some nifty Basil options rather than just Bulleit (whose bourbon just never quite did it for me).  

[Harry in WashDC]

Well, whatever happens, I'm a little better prepared today than I was yesterday.  Both OGD BIB and 114 were on sale at a store not really near me.  I had room in the trunk, so . . .

[GrPeMi]

13 hours ago, BDanner said:

 If OGD 114 does go away with no new BH's this would definitely seem to be a reallocation of high rye to the Bulleit line. 

Did I miss something about ownership and relationships here? Why would Beam Suntory divert stocks from their own products to sell to Diageo?

[flahute]

40 minutes ago, GrPeMi said:

Did I miss something about ownership and relationships here? Why would Beam Suntory divert stocks from their own products to sell to Diageo?

Because they have the stocks to do so. I don't know which mashbill they are selling to Diageo (or how recent the sales are) but they are selling them barrels of whiskey.

[flahute]

14 hours ago, BDanner said:

that Bulleit is now sourcing from Beam since their 4Roses  agreement lapsed

They are sourcing from many including Beam and mingling to try to maintain the profile as best as possible. This will be hard to do since original Bulleit was 90 proof 4RYL. Expect a slow progression of profile shift. 

[beasled]

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/another-one-bites-dust.html

 

Knob Creek going NAS.

[BDanner]

2 hours ago, beasled said:

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/another-one-bites-dust.html

 

Knob Creek going NAS.

Nooooooooooooooo!!

[kcgumbohead]

On 9/21/2016 at 7:36 PM, GaryT said:

 

Very thoughtful post.  We heard from Beam while doing a barrel pick that they were working on Basil options for private selections (which typically means a retail offering along the same lines).  But we also heard it would be ready shortly - and it wasn't in April (and I think our Chairman & CEO checked since for a possible September option, and they still weren't ready).

 

While I'll hate not getting OGD 114, I'd rather lose it to some nifty Basil options rather than just Bulleit (whose bourbon just never quite did it for me).  

 

Maybe I am just getting old and lazy, definitely old!! But I don't find OGD 114 wanting in any way. A BH at barrel proof, NCF and older yes would be a wonderful option but given the choice of having that and no 114 at who knows what price and availability vs. retaining 114 in these wacky bourbon market days, I choose 114. 

[GaryT]

8 hours ago, kcgumbohead said:

 

Maybe I am just getting old and lazy, definitely old!! But I don't find OGD 114 wanting in any way. A BH at barrel proof, NCF and older yes would be a wonderful option but given the choice of having that and no 114 at who knows what price and availability vs. retaining 114 in these wacky bourbon market days, I choose 114. 

 

Oh - I agree.  I'm assuming we're losing 114, and just hoping that IF that is inevitable, it is due to some interesting BH options rather than just to support Bulleit.  

 

Inversely, if they asked "Would you rather keep 114 the way it is if that means getting NO new BH offerings?", I'd be screaming in the affirmative.  

[dcbt]

Does anyone know what provides higher margins to distilleries, traditional sales to distributors of finished product for retail, or selling barrels to NDPs for their sourced stuff?

[Kepler]

3 hours ago, dcbt said:

Does anyone know what provides higher margins to distilleries, traditional sales to distributors of finished product for retail, or selling barrels to NDPs for their sourced stuff?

I think it probably depends on which SKU of their own finished product you're comparing. For example Four Roses (who sells a relatively higher percentage of premium products versus inexpensive products) evidently found it more profitable to keep the stocks for themselves rather than continue selling it to Bulleit. But Beam might make more money by selling it to Bulleit than they would putting the juice in the OGD SKUs that sell for only $22 or cheaper. Basil Hayden sells for a lot more than OGD and coincidentally you're not hearing any rumors of Beam droppimg BH products.

 

Having said all that, if all things are equal (i.e. comparisons of SKUs at the same final retail price), any efficiently run operation like Beam should make more profit by keeping the stocks for their own product and  thus getting the higher prices of the finished product.  But that would all depend on their own efficiency of operations. 

[flahute]

2 hours ago, Kepler said:

I think it probably depends on which SKU of their own finished product you're comparing. For example Four Roses (who sells a relatively higher percentage of premium products versus inexpensive products) evidently found it more profitable to keep the stocks for themselves rather than continue selling it to Bulleit. But Beam might make more money by selling it to Bulleit than they would putting the juice in the OGD SKUs that sell for only $22 or cheaper. Basil Hayden sells for a lot more than OGD and coincidentally you're not hearing any rumors of Beam droppimg BH products.

 

Having said all that, if all things are equal (i.e. comparisons of SKUs at the same final retail price), any efficiently run operation like Beam should make more profit by keeping the stocks for their own product and  thus getting the higher prices of the finished product.  But that would all depend on their own efficiency of operations. 

Four Roses was selling Yellow Label (not a premium product given the younger age relative to their PS barrels at the upper end) and they stopped selling because they were tapped out and couldn't keep up with demand for their own products. And they desperately needed the warehouse space.

 

Totally agree that Beam can make likely make more on the OGD mashbill by selling it, and of course, diverting it to the more premium (in name) BH line.

[GaryT]

I wonder if part of their thinking considers cannibalization.  Do they think scrapping OGD 114 but offering a BH at a higher proof might pull some sales from Bakers or Bookers, while those same consumers may not be buying Bulleit?  

[b1gcountry]

People seem to like smaller craft operations. The people who drink beam products already drink them. I'm not sure how much more market share there is for another beam product vs. a new label from another "distiller" filed with beam whisky.

I don't know. ..

[Josh]

If 114 is killed, I really don't think this will have anything to do with Diageo, more with keeping stock for OGD 80, BiB and BH. Beam has the capacity to supply the distillate and Diageo has its own warehouses. That puts zero pressures on Beam's own aging stock. Besides, why would they sell out their own brands to support a competitor's brand?

[fishnbowljoe]

4 hours ago, Josh said:

If 114 is killed, I really don't think this will have anything to do with Diageo, more with keeping stock for OGD 80, BiB and BH. Beam has the capacity to supply the distillate and Diageo has its own warehouses. That puts zero pressures on Beam's own aging stock. Besides, why would they sell out their own brands to support a competitor's brand?

 

I agree with Josh. 

 

Joe

 

[Louisiana]

[Louisiana]

The good news is that OGD114 is readily available for $21-$23 around here.

 

The bad news is that if I break this one open tonight and really like it. Well.....

 

My bunker will love me and my wallet will hate me!

 

 

[jaxn slim]

A few stores around here just got re-upped on OGD114.  But I get the impression from talking to multiple sources it's probably the last batch to come through.

Edited September 24, 2016 by jaxn slim

[Kyjd75]

Just to be safe for awhile, picked up 6 bottles of OGD 114 and 3 bottles of Baker's.

[Wedelstaedt]

For those that have enjoyed OGD 114  & OGD BiB, have the batches of OGD 114 & BiB been consistent over the last 5 years?  

[flahute]

On 9/24/2016 at 7:41 AM, Josh said:

If 114 is killed, I really don't think this will have anything to do with Diageo, more with keeping stock for OGD 80, BiB and BH. Beam has the capacity to supply the distillate and Diageo has its own warehouses. That puts zero pressures on Beam's own aging stock. Besides, why would they sell out their own brands to support a competitor's brand?

I agree with this also, though recently enough Beam was sending already filled barrels to Diageo. I've been told that Beam has stopped selling at this point, so if true, the OGD business is all about keeping stock for the lesser OGD's while propping up BH with line extensions that meet the goal of further premiumisation as desired by Suntory.