Booker's MSRP and allocation?

[Thig]

Has fredminnick.com been hacked?  I can't get into it so it still makes me wonder of this is ligitimate.

[Kpiz]

The price increase was confirmed on Chuck Cowdery's blog today. He has some additional details as well: http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2016/12/get-ready-to-pay-more-for-bookers-lot.html

[Harry in WashDC]

13 minutes ago, Thig said:

Has fredminnick.com been hacked?  I can't get into it so it still makes me wonder of this is ligitimate.

The blast email I got from Fred's blog says it is official.  The link won't load; I expect it is because thousands of us are trying to read it at the same time.  Now, excuse me -- I have to make a quick trip to about a half-dozen stores who like me enough to let me have them at the "currently" posted price.

[GaryT]

And I guess I've bought my last bottle of Bookers . . . unless I grab one before the prices go up.  Not sure I want to :/ 

[Golferpimp1]

This has me beyond confused on their thinking. This sits on every shelf I see in town at 55. I have no clue how they think it will move at 100. Poor move on their part.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[tanstaafl2]

2 minutes ago, GaryT said:

 Not sure I want to :/ 

 

I am sure that I don't want to!

 

I accept Chuck's explanation that they are adopting the Willett model and doing it essentially because they can as well as SmokinJoe's assertion that bourbon has for the most part been undervalued in the last few years. And I have bought a fair amount of Beam whiskey and many of their increasingly spendy specials over the recent years. Phasing in a price increase over time is one thing but this jump seems to smack of a smug conceit towards their own worth and loyal buyers in the past. Perhaps they are counting on the growth in bourbon buyers in general and their recent attempts to transform the usual Booker's into an instant limited edition by nothing more than slapping a new name on each batch. That said it may well be successful. Can Makers be far behind?

 

But Booker's was never a regular purchase for me and I am fortunate to have enough bourbon, not to mention other types of whiskey, to last me several lifetimes! I don't suffer the same smug conceit that to me seems to be driving Beam Suntory at the moment. Less business from me will certainly have no impact on Beam Suntory. But I don't think I will be buying Booker's either now to add to the bunker or later after the price increase, and will be thinking harder about buying other Beam products in general, going forward.

 

Because I can. 

[fishnbowljoe]

28 minutes ago, GaryT said:

And I guess I've bought my last bottle of Bookers . . . unless I grab one before the prices go up.  Not sure I want to :/ 

 

Pretty much the same for me Gary. To be honest, I've only bought two or three bottles of Booker's over the years. Even though a lot of folks here like it, it's just okay to me, and I can live without it. The last bottle I bought was back in June when it was the BOTM. I bought it at a store I go to frequently, and it was $43.00. They still had it at that price the last time I was in there. Ya' never know. 

 

Cheers! Joe

[BigRich]

This is some serious crap they are pulling. The KC2001 and Booker's Rye were insulting. I find this pricing a blatant slap in the face.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BFerguson]

Shaking my head. There does appear to be no end to the insanity of the market.

I think they got cocky when hey named the batches. That already seemed to move it way more than normal. Probably figured they could go to the next level.

Shaking....

B


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Whiskeythink.com]

I like Bookers, but never bought it because it seemed a liitle young for the price. Theres other older options in that price range. I think perhaps others feel that way too, cause it sits on the shelf around here. So now that it will be $100, wont it sit even longer? Thats more than VW10, VW12, GTS, WLW at retail. I think a comparison to the KC2001 is appropriate; I got to try a dram & it was good, but it is easy to find around here cause no one wants to spend $140 on a Beam product. It seems Beam wants to grab a piece of the BT pie. But BT didnt just fabricate popularity, respect & demand, they earned it. 

[mbroo5880i]

23 minutes ago, Whiskeythink.com said:

I like Bookers, but never bought it because it seemed a liitle young for the price. Theres other older options in that price range. I think perhaps others feel that way too, cause it sits on the shelf around here. So now that it will be $100, wont it sit even longer? Thats more than VW10, VW12, GTS, WLW at retail. I think a comparison to the KC2001 is appropriate; I got to try a dram & it was good, but it is easy to find around here cause no one wants to spend $140 on a Beam product. It seems Beam wants to grab a piece of the BT pie. But BT didnt just fabricate popularity, respect & demand, they earned it. 

 

I was thinking the same thing.  I much prefer KCSB and Bakers anyway.  Of course, both are creeping into Booker's former price range $40 to $50.  A doubling in price overnight just because they can (even if it were grossly underpriced which it isn't) smacks of disregard for consumers who have long supported the brand.  Making something more expensive and allocated may increase interest in certain circles but not among those who help make Bookers what it is.  It will drive them away.  I can guarantee it.  The new consumers will be recent converts and others who chase with money not true enthusiasm for quality and uniqueness.  I understand maximization of profits but there will come a time when a glut will put pressure on demand and they will wonder where all the bandwagoners have gone.  I suspect this is a case of history repeating itself?  I wonder how many popular brands of old became extinct due to this type of market approach prior to previous gluts?

[Flyfish]

18 hours ago, Paddy said:

I recently found myself in Costco purchasing some of that $39.99 Booker's!  I couldn't help but think to myself, "how can Beam keep flooding a national chain with pallet loads of this stuff (especially at that price)?!?!" 

 

 

Paddy, I bought a bottle at the Louisville Costco for that $39.99 back in Oct. Will be heading that way again the first of the year and will continue to stock up on $100 bourbon for $40.

[lcpfratn]

 
I was thinking the same thing.  I much prefer KCSB and Bakers anyway.  Of course, both are creeping into Booker's former price range $40 to $50.  A doubling in price overnight just because they can (even if it were grossly underpriced which it isn't) smacks of disregard for consumers who have long supported the brand.  Making something more expensive and allocated may increase interest in certain circles but not among those who help make Bookers what it is.  It will drive them away.  I can guarantee it.  The new consumers will be recent converts and others who chase with money not true enthusiasm for quality and uniqueness.  I understand maximization of profits but there will come a time when a glut will put pressure on demand and they will wonder where all the bandwagoners have gone.  I suspect this is a case of history repeating itself?  I wonder how many popular brands of old became extinct due to this type of market approach prior to previous gluts?

Very well said. It's these types of recent actions by many of the players in the industry that have me thinking that the supply shortage is likely to end sooner than later. Exactly what "sooner" means is debatable, but I think there won't be as much allocation 5 years from now as there is now, and within 10 years some of the recent trends will likely start to reverse. Now there will always be the highly sought after brands and bottles, but the industry and new players are trying to push too many into that category, and I think there will be a choke point at some not too distant date. As far as Bookers goes, it sits on the shelves now in most stores, so I expect it to either sit longer or retailers will stop carrying it to free up valuable shelf space for bottles that actually will sell.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mosugoji64]

If Beam can hold out (and they can) in a couple of years $100 will be the standard accepted price for Bookers and people will simply think that's the "good stuff" because it costs $100. It may not sell as much but it will still sell with fewer batches available. I'll be interested to see if the age creeps back up with fewer batches or if it will continue to be around 6yo. 

[Midwest101]

I was never a big fan of Beam products, and now I'm definitely not. Kind of an insult to loyal Beam drinkers. All boils down to profit I suppose. Glad my palate is satisfied by 20-40$ whiskies.

[Kpiz]

7 minutes ago, mosugoji64 said:

It may not sell as much but it will still sell with fewer batches available. I'll be interested to see if the age creeps back up with fewer batches or if it will continue to be around 6yo. 

 

I think that's the key: they're reducing supply by about 1/3, so there will be significantly fewer bottles. They're aiming to keep Booker's at the top of their "small batch collection", so maybe they think that if they use just use the top 2/3 (in terms of age or tastiness) of the barrels they used to, it will push the quality (real or perceived) higher and justify the price increase. Even if this is the case, I'm not a buyer at $100.

[Spade]

There is, unsurprisingly, something of a consensus reaction here. The thing is they must have anticipated this reaction from long term enthusiasts, right? So I guess we'll see if there's enough newer folks willing to pay this price, which has to be what they're counting on.

[Midwest101]

2 minutes ago, Kpiz said:

 

I think that's the key: they're reducing supply by about 1/3, so there will be significantly fewer bottles. They're aiming to keep Booker's at the top of their "small batch collection", so maybe they think that if they use just use the top 2/3 (in terms of age or tastiness) of the barrels they used to, it will push the quality (real or perceived) higher and justify the price increase. Even if this is the case, I'm not a buyer at $100.

Can't let it get too old. The damn label says his grandfather liked this bourbon at 6-8 years old. Wonder what his grandfather would think about a $100 price tag. 

[fishnbowljoe]

FWIW, when I starting getting into bourbon, I was never really much of a fan of Beam products. I'm not sure whether it was what others said about the Beam "funk", or if it was my own perception of what it was. Regardless, my thoughts about Beam had changed somewhat in recent times. The group of guys I hang out with for bourbon and cigars has been meeting at my local American Legion post this past year. They have Beam products at extremely reasonable prices. We've had Baker's, Booker's, Basil Hayden's, KC, KC Rye, and KCSB. I'd actually started appreciating Beam products more. Now this. Doubling the price on a product just 'cause?  What's a mother to do? 

 

Joe

[Whiskeythink.com]

19 minutes ago, Spade said:

There is, unsurprisingly, something of a consensus reaction here. The thing is they must have anticipated this reaction from long term enthusiasts, right? So I guess we'll see if there's enough newer folks willing to pay this price, which has to be what they're counting on.

Perhaps they are not worried about us bourbon geeks, & they are hedging their bets on newbies, who will think "its expensive so it must be good". But if they stick with it, they too will find great cheaper stuff & stop buying the overpriced stuff.

[Whiskeythink.com]

54 minutes ago, lcpfratn said:

As far as Bookers goes, it sits on the shelves now in most stores, so I expect it to either sit longer or retailers will stop carrying it to free up valuable shelf space for bottles that actually will sell.

This could be where Beam runs into trouble. Bookers is found in grocery stores around here, as well as small shops. But if the stuff sells even less than it does now, retailers will use that space for something else. Less shelfs, less sales.

[GaryT]

Just now, Whiskeythink.com said:

Perhaps they are not worried about us bourbon geeks, & they are hedging their bets on newbies, who will think "its expensive so it must be good". But if they stick with it, they too will find great cheaper stuff & stop buying the overpriced stuff.

 

That is my guess - we're a very small (microscopic) piece of the market.  As an enthusiast, I don't have "a brand", or even a handful of brands.  I've got way more than is reasonable LOL  So I'm not repeat buying a bottle like Bookers with much frequency, compared to the new buyer who is just getting in, feels it is worth $100 to them, and buys a bottle a month.

 

I started thinking "I'll just get KCSB from now on", except that's Beam too.  If I'm going to spend $100 on a barrel proof, 6-7 yr bourbon - I'll drive to the @#$% Four Roses gift shop and buy single barrel picks there.  Would much rather throw my money somewhere else besides Beam.  Stagg Jr is starting to look a whole lot better  

[mbroo5880i]

1 hour ago, Flyfish said:

Paddy, I bought a bottle at the Louisville Costco for that $39.99 back in Oct. Will be heading that way again the first of the year and will continue to stock up on $100 bourbon for $40.

 

If you wait until the first of the year, the flippers might beat you to it.   We might see the shelves clear pretty quickly of the less than "wholesale" priced prized batches.  

 

Bookers is a brand that I always thought had a big following in bars and restaurants.  It is kind of a step up from Makers Mark among the ubiquitous brands in mid-to upper-level bars and restaurants.  I wonder what effect this will have on that side of its distribution.  I wonder if distributors will force them to continue to purchase it, albeit at a higher price, in order to get other products.

[MelissaM]

A 100% increase in price seems nutty. There are very few bourbons I would pay that much for. Limited one off yearly releases maybe, but Bookers? As others have stated it sits on the shelves at $50. This may come back to bite them in the arse. While demand has increased so has production. 

[fishnbowljoe]

1 minute ago, mbroo5880i said:

Bookers is a brand that I always thought had a big following in bars and restaurants.  It is kind of a step up from Makers Mark among the ubiquitous brands in mid-to upper-level bars and restaurants.  I wonder what effect this will have on that side of its distribution.  I wonder if distributors will force them to continue to purchase it, albeit at a higher price, in order to get other products.

 

With MM being a part of the Beam/Suntory group, could Maker's possibly be next?   Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.