Booker's MSRP and allocation?

[smokinjoe]

Ballsy-ass move, if you ask me.  I like it , if for no more than that .  

 

 

 

[flahute]

None of this is a surprise based on what we've been hearing out of corporate and the steps they've already taken that support what they've said they were going to do.

[BigD]

I can honestly say I will not be part of the Beam Bourbon Price Fiasco (BBPF) of 2017,  Like many have said here before there are plenty of good bourbons out there....    

[Charlutz]

I find the whole thing sad. I'm a big fan of Booker's as well as KCSB. I also occasionally keep a family size KC on hand for parties. I don't feel the love most here do for OGDBIB but I do love OGD114. Beam was the one distillery that seemed to have endless stocks. Losing OGD114 was hard. The age statement on KC wasn't so bad but was an ominous sign that even Beam's stocks were getting taxed. Why oh why could they not take BH and Baker's and leave the others alone!?!  I'll be loading up on Booker's, KCSB and OGD114, three brands I always "knew" I could find on the shelf. 

[Charlutz]

3 hours ago, Whiskeythink.com said:

I like Bookers, but never bought it because it seemed a liitle young for the price. Theres other older options in that price range. I think perhaps others feel that way too, cause it sits on the shelf around here. So now that it will be $100, wont it sit even longer? Thats more than VW10, VW12, GTS, WLW at retail. I think a comparison to the KC2001 is appropriate; I got to try a dram & it was good, but it is easy to find around here cause no one wants to spend $140 on a Beam product. It seems Beam wants to grab a piece of the BT pie. But BT didnt just fabricate popularity, respect & demand, they earned it. 

 

Yes, it's 6 years old but it's also 128 proof. To me, it was a value pour at $50. Not many 6 year 125+ proofers available at $50. Stagg Jr. is all that comes to mind. Maybe 1792FP though I don't know its age. ECBP and KCSB get you better value and one of those is highly sought after and the other is also Beam. Booker's has a very defined niche and it will be missed at the current price point. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Charlutz

[Whiskeythink.com]

38 minutes ago, Charlutz said:

 

Yes, it's 6 years old but it's also 128 proof. To me, it was a value pour at $50. Not many 6 year 125+ proofers available at $50. Stagg Jr. is all that comes to mind. Maybe 1792FP though I don't know its age. ECBP and KCSB get you better value and one of those is highly sought after and the other is also Beam. Booker's has a very defined niche and it will be missed at the current price point. 

Ill take a KCSB store pick @ $40 (binnys) or $36 (liqur barn) & 120 proof over Bookers any day, tho thats just my preference. Bookers has the advantage that its uncut & unfiltered, & if its one of your regular tipples, this is real bad news. Stagg Jr is an option, but to me a wsy diffetent profile. As far as ECBP, well, to me its just head & shoulders way above Bookers, way more intense goodness - again, just my pallatte. And that doesnt even get into what diverse greatness you can get from 4 Roses for under $100.

[lcpfratn]

Makes you wonder whether leaking this and the OGD114 demise is nothing more than a ploy by Beam to get enthusiasts and others that hear about it to go buy current inventory to create a demand story to justify the pricing increases for Bookers and a decision not to moth ball OGD114, but increase pricing or reintroduce after a short period of hiatus.


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[Thig]

Chuck Cowdery just confirmed also on his blog. Glad I have several bunkered because it is one of my favorites.

[Tennessee Dave]

Well this just sucks!  I am a Booker's fan.  Imagine Booker's going the way of of Weller's and twice the price to boot!  My God, what would Booker Noe think of this?

[smokinjoe]

38 minutes ago, Thig said:

Chuck Cowdery just confirmed also on his blog. Glad I have several bunkered because it is one of my favorites.

 

Just read Chuck 's write-up.  Spot on analysis.  Beam did it..."...because they can. ".   I'll add, that they should.  

[Thig]

Just read Chuck 's write-up.  Spot on analysis.  Beam did it..."...because they can. ".   I'll add, that they should.  

I know some think it is just a mediocre bourbon but it is near the top for me, glad I have bunkered quite a few.

[smokinjoe]

11 minutes ago, Thig said:

 

I know some think it is just a mediocre bourbon but it is near the top for me, glad I have bunkered quite a few.

 

Agreed.  I think many associate that opinion of "mediocre" with its age, particularly when justifying (or not) the price without regard to the quality of the drink.   I don't think age and price should be linked necessarily.  

[lcpfratn]

Just read Chuck 's write-up.  Spot on analysis.  Beam did it..."...because they can. ".   I'll add, that they should.  

Just because you can do something doesn't always mean it's wise to actually do it...I guess only time will tell, but I think Beam will regret this decision in the long term.


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[Bbstout]

20 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

Agreed.  I think many associate that opinion of "mediocre" with its age, particularly when justifying (or not) the price without regard to the quality of the drink.   I don't think age and price should be linked necessarily.  

Agreed as well...I believe placement on the rickhouse is more of a determining factor. Concentrated flavor due to the Angels share as well as barrel differences, etc. Jim Rutledge always preferred bourbon under 12 years and he has forgot more about bourbon then I will ever know. I'm a big fan of Booker's and will miss it, as I will not pay $100 a bottle for any bourbon.

[Old Dusty]

50 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

Just read Chuck 's write-up.  Spot on analysis.  Beam did it..."...because they can. ".   I'll add, that they should.  

Joe, why do you think that? Current trends in price? Secondary values skewing everything? Underpriced at $50? 

 

They most certainly CAN do it. But I don't think they should. Bookers is good (if you like the Beam peanut) because it is cask strength, readily available and $50. It will get clobbered in the market at $100. FR PS,  Stagg Jr., ECBP, CEHT BP and others will be substantially cheaper. And while they may find a ready market overseas at that new number, they will really alienate their current domestic customer base. And when the boom slacks they will be bargain binning Bookers left and right to get them off the shelves. Move it to $70 and people will grumble and pay if they love it. But double the price and you loose people in droves. All IMO of course. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Old Dusty

[smokinjoe]

11 minutes ago, Old Dusty said:

Joe, why do you think that? Current trends in price? Secondary values skewing everything? Underpriced at $50? 

 

They most certainly CAN do it. But I don't think they should. Bookers is good (if you like the Beam peanut) because it is cask strength, readily available and $50. It will get clobbered in the market at $100. FR PS,  Stagg Jr., ECBP, CEHT BP and others will be substantially cheaper. And while they may find a ready market overseas at that new number, they will really alienate their current domestic customer base. And when the boom slacks they will be bargain binning Bookers left and right to get them off the shelves. Move it to $70 and people will grumble and pay if they love it. But double the price and you loose people in droves. All IMO of course. 

They can always come down.  You have to test the high side.  And, as we've seen , those others you mention have certainly been creeping up in price every year.  As the leader in the market Beam should attempt to set the price.  We'll see if others follow further.  I suspect they will.  In the global whiskey world, $100 for a barrel proof/cask strength whiskey of high quality is no where near out of line.  It's been written here a thousand times how Bookers, ECSB, FRPS, etc., are great QPR's.  Great products in any marketplace should not be great QPR's if you own them.

[Saul_cooperstein]

After rethinking and reading chuck's blog I think there is some genius to what they are doing. They are basically putting in place 2x surge pricing to steal an uber term. By raising the price they are intentionally limiting demand to better match up to their plan to limit supply. It is actually good to hear they are pulling back on bottling as it will allow them to replenish stocks and increase average aging before release.  I would expect beam has enough captive accounts or forthcoming LEs they can tie allocations to in order to push the reduced supply through the distribution system. In a few years people won't remember the change and the market will be stuck at the increased level. However by limiting supply they will be able to stabilize and then reverse the decreasing age statements...and even with a bigger percentage discount to wholesale will make the same or more money. 2-3 years from now $99 for a 120+ proof 8-10 year product doesn't seem so crazy.

 

Maybe more folks should do this - or at least think about it. Instead of dropping the age statement and the quality what if other producers raised their prices in order to limit demand (and match up to lower released supplies) and allow their stocks to replenish - while still making  near or same amount of money. As long as they didn't impact their tied allocation practices might be a nice solution to better matching up price, demand and supply which for many products are way out of wack. 

[Spade]

Time will tell if it's a smart move or not. Alienating fans is not a good thing. I generally go through 6 or so bottles of stuff from Beam in a given year. Of Booker's, Baker's, and KCSB, I always have at least one of these open at any moment. Plus, I like MMCS and have recently been going through a bottle of that every six months or so. And of course there's OGD114 (well... there was until recently). Does that qualify me as a regular customer? I would think so.

 

As of today, I won't be buying any of these for the foreseeable future. I've learned to never say never, but I can confidently say if they go through with the increase, I won't be a customer of any of Suntory's products for quite some time. I can't imagine I'm the only one. There's just too many great whiskies (not to mention, brandies, beers, etc.) out there.

 

Edited to add: I agree with those who have said Beam is free to set whatever price they want. Of course, I'm free to spend my money however I want too. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Spade

[Old Dusty]

8 hours ago, Saul_cooperstein said:

After rethinking and reading chuck's blog I think there is some genius to what they are doing. They are basically putting in place 2x surge pricing to steal an uber term. By raising the price they are intentionally limiting demand to better match up to their plan to limit supply. It is actually good to hear they are pulling back on bottling as it will allow them to replenish stocks and increase average aging before release.  I would expect beam has enough captive accounts or forthcoming LEs they can tie allocations to in order to push the reduced supply through the distribution system. In a few years people won't remember the change and the market will be stuck at the increased level. However by limiting supply they will be able to stabilize and then reverse the decreasing age statements...and even with a bigger percentage discount to wholesale will make the same or more money. 2-3 years from now $99 for a 120+ proof 8-10 year product doesn't seem so crazy.

 

Maybe more folks should do this - or at least think about it. Instead of dropping the age statement and the quality what if other producers raised their prices in order to limit demand (and match up to lower released supplies) and allow their stocks to replenish - while still making  near or same amount of money. As long as they didn't impact their tied allocation practices might be a nice solution to better matching up price, demand and supply which for many products are way out of wack. 

If this is the new model for the big boys-and it always has been for the Michter's of the world, then I will lean on my bunker and start drinking more American brandy and Armagnac. I'm not a buyer of $100 Booker's. 

[Old Dusty]

8 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

They can always come down.  You have to test the high side.  And, as we've seen , those others you mention have certainly been creeping up in price every year.  As the leader in the market Beam should attempt to set the price.  We'll see if others follow further.  I suspect they will.  In the global whiskey world, $100 for a barrel proof/cask strength whiskey of high quality is no where near out of line.  It's been written here a thousand times how Bookers, ECSB, FRPS, etc., are great QPR's.  Great products in any marketplace should not be great QPR's if you own them.

Well, Beam just 86'ed their best QPR product in OGD 114.  I don't take issue with what you say here, but it's risky to me in terms of the "test" backfiring like the Maker's proof drop. I think there is already a grass roots backlash of sorts brewing.  Will you be content to pay a Benjamin for 6 year old bourbon? Even at CS I'm not a buyer. 

[Saul_cooperstein]

I very likely won't be buying any $99 bookers for some time - as others have said just too much other great stuff available. Only bookers in my bunker is the 25 and the rye so won't be missing much. But who knows...if a couple years from now the age statement is up to 8-10 years and more in line with where it was with the 25 plus better quality selection from where they are now with less batches per year could actually be a very compelling product. However challenge is that the price change is leading the process instead of the quality and aging taking the lead so will have to take a wait and see approach. 

[Bourbonmakesmepoop]

From what I'm readingon this thread, maybe this will finally be the straw that breaks the camels back on the bourbon boom, especially if other brands follow suit.

[mountaineervol]

8 hours ago, Saul_cooperstein said:

After rethinking and reading chuck's blog I think there is some genius to what they are doing. They are basically putting in place 2x surge pricing to steal an uber term. By raising the price they are intentionally limiting demand to better match up to their plan to limit supply. It is actually good to hear they are pulling back on bottling as it will allow them to replenish stocks and increase average aging before release.  I would expect beam has enough captive accounts or forthcoming LEs they can tie allocations to in order to push the reduced supply through the distribution system. In a few years people won't remember the change and the market will be stuck at the increased level. However by limiting supply they will be able to stabilize and then reverse the decreasing age statements...and even with a bigger percentage discount to wholesale will make the same or more money. 2-3 years from now $99 for a 120+ proof 8-10 year product doesn't seem so crazy.

 

Maybe more folks should do this - or at least think about it. Instead of dropping the age statement and the quality what if other producers raised their prices in order to limit demand (and match up to lower released supplies) and allow their stocks to replenish - while still making  near or same amount of money. As long as they didn't impact their tied allocation practices might be a nice solution to better matching up price, demand and supply which for many products are way out of wack. 

 

I was also thinking along the same lines. If they are limiting production by 33% they will have a significant increase in older bourbon quickly as opposed to limiting production due to a shortage.  May be gearing up for a "super premium" product or another form of limited edition. I guess they want their products to have increased demand, we'll see how it works.

[dcbt]

You can be the other distilleries are watching these events unfold with even more interest than we are.  Do Stagg Jr and ECBP jump to similar price levels?  What about WTRB, a 3x price increase to match the other BPs?

 

As many have mentioned, since it sits on shelves at $50, I think Beam will have to find the equilibrium point to go with the supply decrease.  I think it's below $100, but we'll see I guess...

[smokinjoe]

1 hour ago, Old Dusty said:

Well, Beam just 86'ed their best QPR product in OGD 114.  I don't take issue with what you say here, but it's risky to me in terms of the "test" backfiring like the Maker's proof drop. I think there is already a grass roots backlash of sorts brewing.  Will you be content to pay a Benjamin for 6 year old bourbon? Even at CS I'm not a buyer. 

Based on the continued rise in MM sales since the attempted proof drop, I think the backfire was no more than a little grinding of the clutch between 3rd and 4th gear...  Speaking of which, I need to crack one of those 42 ABV's open and give her a run today.  

Edited December 10, 2016 by smokinjoe