What is your Favorite American Beer Now and what did you like many years ago?

[Gillman]

I think Yuengling saw far enough ahead, 20 and 30 years ago when microbreweries were looming and quality imports were starting to climb, that they had a future as an independent brewery. They were so "old-fashioned", e.g., through their tasty porter and Lord Chesterfield Ale, that they were in effect aligned with the newbies on the scene; some old independents capitalised on that, F.X. Matt's in Utica is another good example although their persistence was due in part to capitalising on contract brewing for label owners. There are other examples, a couple in the mid-west I know. High Falls (Genessee) in Rochester: yet another example. I would think its Dundee line which is a craft-style approach must sell more now than Genny, or soon will if not the case.

Some of the big city breweries that closed surely could have continued by making similar adjustments to the business model. It is true that they faced in some cases different problems, e.g., competition from big national brewers was more of an issue for them than breweries secreted in distant small towns that remained resistant to big national brands. The very survival of many of the Pennsylvania State small breweries (e.g. Straub's) was due I think to their distance from big city markets and distribution networks. (Is the brewery that made Stoney's and those beers still going, it was called Jones Brewing I think?).

Also, larger city breweries were more attractive to the takeover specialists, the same thing happened in Canada with EP Taylor's Canadian Breweries which took over and closed many local concerns.

And re-investment is more costly for a big brewery.

Anyway, it is a pity so many great breweries failed. Still, the flexibility of the free market has allowed many new ones to start up. There are over 1000 breweries in America today. While we must regret those of the past that closed, the choice today, of quality beer, is better than 30 years ago. Many of the beers we lament were rather indistinguishable one from the other. We recall them partly due to nostalgia, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the beer scene today is much richer than in the 70's, say.

Gary

[dave ziegler]

Gary Jones Brewing is closed but they are supposed to be having Pittsburg Brewing Contract making Stoneys for them! I am glad you talked about Labatt 50 it was on sale today so I bought a case and I must say it is a nice Ale for the summer! I also like Sam Adams Summer Ale with its citrus Lemon flavor it is an idea ale for summer drinking. I think if I could go back many yeears to try just one Beer I would pick Krueger after what you have read aboout it from your book and the fact it was the first beer to be put in a can! Oh and yes that was a typo it was Cardinal Beer of Virginia!

Dave Z

[dave ziegler]

This weekend I gave Sam Adams Summer Ale a try and find I llike it very much. Has a sort of Lemon flavor in it and is very Refreshing to drink and in the Mouth. I find most Sam Adams stuff to be good the trouble is they have such high prices for their Beers. I also got a case of Labatt 50 Ale which I find a very nice smooth Summer drink. Its price was much nicer then the Sam but I am amazed at all the differant Beers and Ales Sam Adams makes. Now they make some of them at the old Latrobe Brewery in Pa too!

Dave Z

Beer Its Not Just A beverage Its Food

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[dave ziegler]

Another Brewery gone. Tonight I am drinking one of the last of my Philadelphia Lager Beers. It was a product of Red Bell brewing that had redid an old and famous original Brewery from before prohibition at 31first street and jefferson streets. They went there with the city of Phila telling them they would help them if they fixed the old brewery up! This Lager is wonderful sort of a cross between Ortliebs and Schmidt's I love it well I found out that about some time late last year they went under do to owning to many taxes to the city of Philadelphia! So much for them helping them, maybe they did but then they helped them out of bussiness. You used to be able to get their Phila Lager at Flyers games and they sold it cheaper then the others too! I have about 10 bottles yet then it will be goodbye to this wonderful beer to!

Dave Z

Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

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[dave ziegler]

Here are a couple of Pictures of the Historic Poth Brewery which Red bell Brewing Had bought, it was one of the last almost complete Brewery town Brewerys it is now going to be torn down by the City of Philadelphia which is typical to build some Junk building in a neighberhood no one wants to go! It is so strong that it was stated it could withstand a Atomic Bomb back it the 1950's Why can't Philadelphia ever learn that in their Historic Buildings is success not new crap like everyone else builds to day. I do not know if it is gone yet or not If anyone living down there knows please let me know I used to go by it all the time when I drove truck back in the early 1990's. I love the rounded wall it was even when empty a beautiful Building.

Dave Z

Good Old Esslinger

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[dave ziegler]

If there is any member that lives in Phila that can help me I am going to petition the City to make the Old Poth Brewery 31st & Jefferson Ave a Historic Site so they don't tear down this amazing old Brewery which is one of the very last standing ones and was home of the Red Bell brewery till it went out of bussiness owing taxes. If I could get members from Phila to help it would be great I called and asked the Mayors Hictoric group to send me a Petition but don't know how much is involved and want to save this Historic brewery, which had 5 Million spent on it in 1995 and had brewery tours up to the year 2002! If I had money I would buy it and start another brewery but that is imposible They just removed all the new equipment from it on May 27th auction so it should still be fairly intact.Anyone who has any ideas or can help please e mail me. The Brewery operated as Poth Brewing from 1864 till 1936, and the building up till now had been used and is well saveable as 5 million spent on it in 1995. It is really the most complete standing Brewery left in Phila in brewery town section.

Dave Z

[jesskidden]

If there is any member that lives in Phila that can help me I am going to petition the City to make the Old Poth Brewery 31st & Jefferson Ave a Historic Site so they don't tear down this amazing old Brewery

I take it you're familiar with the Pennslvania Brewery Historians group?

They've been active in some attempts at preserving breweries- as noted on the Site Map on their homepage.

[dave ziegler]

I take it you're familiar with the Pennslvania Brewery Historians group?

They've been active in some attempts at preserving breweries- as noted on the Site Map on their homepage.

Thank you for that link I have seen stuff about them but had no E mail I just wrote to Rich and told Him I want to help! Thanks so much for the Help

Jesskidden!

Dave Z

Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

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[dave ziegler]

Here is a better Picture of the Main brew house of The Poth Brewery!

I plan on taking a trip down and get some pictures of it soon!

Dave Z

Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food

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[dave ziegler]

Right now I am drinking one of the nicest smoothest old fashion tasting beers I have had in many a year! Victory Lager by Victory Brewing. It is light smooth and refreshing. It reminds me of the early days I drank beer when Shmidt's and Ortliebs were king it reminds me much of them not compicated by just a beer you can sit and drink one after another! This will become one I will always get it is not cheap but its flavor is wonderful!

And you get what you pay for most times.

Dave Z

Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food

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[Attila]

Deadguy Ale from Rogue used to be my favorite American Beer.

These days my favorite American beer is maybe Anchor Porter.

[jesskidden]

Right now I am drinking one of the nicest smoothest old fashion tasting beers I have had in many a year! Victory Lager by Victory Brewing. It is light smooth and refreshing. It reminds me of the early days I drank beer when Shmidt's and Ortliebs were king...

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I haven't had the Victory Lager since the late 1990's (when it first hit the market in NJ). I wasn't too impressed with it at the time- which is a shame because, as a result, I also neglected trying the Prima Pils even tho' HopDevil became my "regular" IPA and I was a big fan of Victory's stout and barleywine. Later, after reading some reviews I tried the Prima and it became my favorite US brewed pilsner (well, it eventually lost that title to Sly Fox Pikeland Pils- [what can I say? I like hops] which lately has been hard to find in NJ).

Since that era, I've read that they've "tweaked" the Victory Lager recipe somewhat and I should give it another try.

Victory also makes a "Pre-Prohibition" lager, Victory Throwback Lager, with corn and they actually use the old Christian Schmidt yeast, as well. Unfortunately, it's a draft-only seasonal beer that's brewed in April (Repeal's anniversary). Haven't yet gotten over to the brewery at the right time to try it.

The "new" Philadelphia Brewing Company (which grew out of the split of the owners of Yards) has a nice light crisp ale (BA's calling it a Kölsch, RB puts it down as a "golden/blonde ale") called Kenzinger Beer

that would well serve the purpose of a local "session" beer. Kinda expensive over here in Jersey (around $10 a sixpack) but on their side of the Delaware, it goes for much less ($25-30 a case).

[dave ziegler]

I like to think when I was young and most of those Days the One Beer I really Loved was Ballatine I would go to old Connie Mack Stadium get a Ballatine and a Foremost Kosher Hot dog and it was great. I never had a Ballatine Beer I did not like back then. And I still like the Ale even though it is not just like it was then it is nice! I can still see the Beer Guy with his ice box hanging on him saying Hey Get your Cold Beer, and the old Hot dog Vender called Hot Dog Eddie coming around with the steam box full of wonderful Kosher Hot dogs and him putting on Mustard with a wooden stick. Those Were The Days and all for about a buck!

Dave Z

Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food

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[dave ziegler]

Another Beer I remember well from the old days was Neuweiler & Neuweiler Cream Al which I have to say I liked very Much. A bunch of our gang them would go get qts of Neuweiler for about .35 each and just sit and talk and drink it! I remeber it was a very nice lager not heavy but light like the bottle said and We would offten drink it then one day we went to get some and they were gone! Even with all the Micro Brewers today I am not sure that they were not the best days of Beer. It was cheap it was good and you could get your favorite here in Pa anywhere beer was sold, not have to look all over for what they now decide they will carry!

Dave Z

beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food

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[dave ziegler]

Here is a picture of Something I just got for my Work office a 1957 Schmidt's Keystone State Beer Clock have wanted this one for years and finally won one at a good price. It will replace the 1960's one I have now. A beer I am wondering if Gary or any of you had back in the 1970's 80's was the Schmidt's Made Duquesne Brand which they got when Duquesne was gone they also made a Duquesne Bavarian beer same color Can as theirs just said Duquesne instead of Schmidt's!

Dave Z

Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food

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[ratcheer]

I found a new (to me) beer while at the beach, this past week - Cable Car lager from Lacrosse, WI. I had the perfect American lager flavor like I remember from 30 or more years ago. I recommend it.

Tim

[Gillman]

Dave, I don't recall Duquesne but I did drink Schmidt's many times including Tiger Head. I liked the light brown stubby bottle and even the kinds of cartons they used to come in. There was a certain taste Schmidt's had, it was excellent light American lager.

Gary

[Stu]

Does anyone remember Champagne Velvet? You'd have to be an old fart like me to remember because the brewery closed while I was in high school. It was brewed in Terre Haute and that's all my Grandpa and uncles drank. It was the fourth best seller in the USA and Schlitz and Falstaff got together to buy them out and close the brewery. My Dad liked Schlitz - yuk. I'm not much of a beer drinker, but I remember when I was in high school we use to buy a lot of Bud and Michelob. Anything from Anheuser Busch is my last choice now.

[ratcheer]

Does anyone remember Champagne Velvet?

I remember the advertising, but never had the beer. At 56, I may be to young to have had the opportunity. Who made it?

Tim

[dave ziegler]

Dave, I don't recall Duquesne but I did drink Schmidt's many times including Tiger Head. I liked the light brown stubby bottle and even the kinds of cartons they used to come in. There was a certain taste Schmidt's had, it was excellent light American lager.

Gary

Gary And yet I have had people say to me that Schmidt's was bad river water beer, which is totally wrong as the brewery at 2nd and Girade had a well that was very deep and the water was all the way up to the top of the well artision I think they call wells like that. Their Light American Lager was as you said Gary a great Beer in fact their old saying One Beautiful Beer somes it up, or their other saying Schmidt's Full Taste Beer! When I was young it was Shmidt's and Old Hickory by Choice! They did have interesting Cartons and bottles and I enjoyed the Tiger Head Ale too!

I used to talk to some of the guys when I would deliver next door and they told me about the wells and we used to laugh at the dumb stuff some people would say. When the Family owned it they were great People to work for and it was a very sad day in 1987 when they closed.

Also thanks for the tip Tim I will look for Cable Car Lager And I do not remmeber Champagne Vevet but will do some looking about it!

Dave Z

Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food

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[Gillman]

There are all kinds of stories about water good and bad used by breweries, most not very reliable. Breweries today (and since the 1930's at least) have excellent labs and know how to analyse and adjust water to make it clean and suitable for their needs. Sometimes the water does impact the beer, e.g., there is a sulpher-like taste to beer from Burton-on-Trent in England, not much noticeable in Bass but e.g., in Marston's that might come from the water there. It is a traditional taste by this point, so the brewery doesn't change it (but they could if they wanted). But the water used by Schmidt's had to be good I'm sure.

Gary

[dave ziegler]

There are all kinds of stories about water good and bad used by breweries, most not very reliable. Breweries today (and since the 1930's at least) have excellent labs and know how to analyse and adjust water to make it clean and suitable for their needs. Sometimes the water does impact the beer, e.g., there is a sulpher-like taste to beer from Burton-on-Trent in England, not much noticeable in Bass but e.g., in Marston's that might come from the water there. It is a traditional taste by this point, so the brewery doesn't change it (but they could if they wanted). But the water used by Schmidt's had to be good I'm sure.

Gary

Speaking of Water we had many wells at Kinsey and they were all treated as the water was used, they distilled it first! They did that right at the Government Building O, right next to our Break room. funny how you think of things so quickly.

Dave Z

[jesskidden]

Does anyone remember Champagne Velvet? You'd have to be an old fart like me to remember because the brewery closed while I was in high school. It was brewed in Terre Haute and that's all my Grandpa and uncles drank. It was the fourth best seller in the USA and Schlitz and Falstaff got together to buy them out and close the brewery.

Champagne Velvet was made by various brewers up until, at least, the 1980's - as can be noted in this interesting lawsuit by "Champale" over a malt liquor being marketed by Pickett, which was leasing the name from Heileman. The brand went from Drewry's/Associated to Heileman to Pickett and was later revived by a microbrewery/brewpub also called Terre Haute Brewing Company (now closed).

Don't know when the beer would have been "the fourth best seller in the USA"- no figures I have for the brand or brewery suggest anything like that but I've noted a lot of such claims for this beer and the brewery on the 'net. I suppose that most of it comes from the "facts" printed on the above "reborn" brewery's site, which, again, don't jibe with most printed reference material. A list of the top 16 breweries in 1895 from the Brewers Guide doesn't show Terre Haute listed (while the website claims it was #7 in '92).

A list of the top 22 breweries in 1958 doesn't list Terre Haute either, even tho' the website claims a production of 1.5 million barrels. (Coincidentally -or, maybe not- Drewry's sales at the time WERE 1.5m bbl., and Drewery's evolved into Associated after a merger with others breweries.) The capacity for the TH brewery in 1957 is listed at 202,000 bbl and, in 1954, ALL of Indiana's breweries only produced 2.3 million bbl of beer (including the production of large breweries like Drewery's in South Bend, Cook in Evansville and Old Crown and Falstaff in Ft. Wayne).

Terre Haute Brewing Co. was bought by Atlantic Brewing out of Chicago in 1958 and closed the following year. (No connection to Schlitz or Falstaff.)

[dave ziegler]

From what I have just read Champagn Velvet was later brewed by Picket Brewing in IN. Never had it but it must have been a good name for Picket to keep the brand going later on! One of my old Favorites Long gone was Kaiers Special Beer made in Mahanoy City Pa. It was a very good lager and won a belguin Medal for its flavor. Used to wait till after church when I was up state and about 11:00 Am knock on the back door of a bar up there and a hand with a brown bag would come out you would put some cash it the hand and in the bag were some little 7 oz Bottles of Kaiers.

Dave Z

Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food

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[Stu]

OK, so it was seventh, not fourth. I remember when TH brewing revised the brand. I've still got family in Terre Haute and I go there once or twice a year. The whole town (at least the beer drinkers) was upset when they sold the microbrewery to an Indianapolis brewery who discontinued CV. I had some while the microbrewery was still making CV and I enjoyed it, but as I said, I'm not a big beer man.