Four Roses 10 Recipes

[BoyScout]

My local shop, Vintage Bottle in Acworth, GA, working in partnernship with Dekalb Bottle House just got in their barrel of OBSV.  9yr, 6mon, 54.5% ABV and I'm getting my first taste now.  Whoa - the B in OBSV is hot!  Not so sure about that.

Now I'm tasting the January bottle to compare.  OESF, 10/3 in age, 54.1%, and much, much more mellow.  

 

So guys, if any of you Georgians want a spicy 4R they are available at both stores.  If the January sale is any indication they won't last long.

[tanstaafl2]

26 minutes ago, BoyScout said:

My local shop, Vintage Bottle in Acworth, GA, working in partnernship with Dekalb Bottle House just got in their barrel of OBSV.  9yr, 6mon, 54.5% ABV and I'm getting my first taste now.  Whoa - the B in OBSV is hot!  Not so sure about that.

Now I'm tasting the January bottle to compare.  OESF, 10/3 in age, 54.1%, and much, much more mellow.  

 

So guys, if any of you Georgians want a spicy 4R they are available at both stores.  If the January sale is any indication they won't last long.

 

It doesn't seem nearly as hot if you drink a bunch of 120 proof Knob Creek right before hand! More like a glass of the morning dew... 

[BoyScout]

Follow up to my post of last week.  Vintage Bottle just received a second barrel, this time OESV.  My earlier post on OBSV was on the negative side - too hot, too spicy.  This OESV however is very similar to the OESF from last winter and in a word - WOW.   The V is just a bit spicier than F but still very sweet, flavorful, and smooth.  I prefer Rye and hi-rye bourbons but the 35% represented by "B" is too hot.  Thus, I give the E recipe a top grade.

[0895]

On 10/21/2016 at 4:30 PM, BoyScout said:

Follow up to my post of last week.  Vintage Bottle just received a second barrel, this time OESV.  My earlier post on OBSV was on the negative side - too hot, too spicy.  This OESV however is very similar to the OESF from last winter and in a word - WOW.   The V is just a bit spicier than F but still very sweet, flavorful, and smooth.  I prefer Rye and hi-rye bourbons but the 35% represented by "B" is too hot.  Thus, I give the E recipe a top grade.

 

I'm with you.  I liked "BSV",  but then I tried "ESV" and fell in love.  It just works so well and makes a nice creamy/custard sweet type bourbon.

 

Another thing I stand by with four roses is that the bottles get much better with air time.  I'm always disappointed with them when I open new ones, but after a few weeks they evolve into something beautiful....kinda like a rose. 

[beasled]

Have managed to acquire an OBSV (9 yr, 59%) and recently an OBSK (8 yr, 51%) through a friend in NY, but we have never had not will get Private Selection here in the UK, which sucks major ones. 

 

So, if you ever find yourself on the way to the UK, bring one over for me! 

 

Cheers

[Sean Bond]

On 11/29/2016 at 6:46 AM, beasled said:

Have managed to acquire an OBSV (9 yr, 59%) and recently an OBSK (8 yr, 51%) through a friend in NY, but we have never had not will get Private Selection here in the UK, which sucks major ones. 

 

So, if you ever find yourself on the way to the UK, bring one over for me! 

 

Cheers

If it makes you feel any better, I had to order the only bottle of the Limited Ed. Small Batch I've ever had (2015) from the UK, which cost me $50 in shipping! Totally worth it, but painful.

 

Also, you guys get the shaft on bourbon in general, but you're much luckier than we are in terms of Japanese whisky! 

[beasled]

2 minutes ago, Sean Bond said:

If it makes you feel any better, I had to order the only bottle of the Limited Ed. Small Batch I've ever had (2015) from the UK, which cost me $50 in shipping! Totally worth it, but painful.

 

Also, you guys get the shaft on bourbon in general, but you're much luckier than we are in terms of Japanese whisky! 

 

We get a good allocation of things and it really helps to be in the know to get them. Have managed to get most of the Van Winkle line (several times over,) the last 3 years of BTAC and whatever 4R limited gets thrown our way, no complaints.

 

Weirdly, despite having had the 4R single barrel limited each year for many years, they decided not to send us the Elliot's Select. Not sure why, we didn't get that. Got the 16SmbLE though. 

 

Would love to be able to order from the states more, so far I think only Bunny's offer that. 

[Sean Bond]

16 hours ago, beasled said:

 

We get a good allocation of things and it really helps to be in the know to get them. Have managed to get most of the Van Winkle line (several times over,) the last 3 years of BTAC and whatever 4R limited gets thrown our way, no complaints.

 

Weirdly, despite having had the 4R single barrel limited each year for many years, they decided not to send us the Elliot's Select. Not sure why, we didn't get that. Got the 16SmbLE though. 

 

Would love to be able to order from the states more, so far I think only Bunny's offer that. 

Well in that case, I amend my statement, and would like to trade places with you! The only BTAC I saw in the UK (I only looked in London) was wildly overpriced (GTS for ~400£), so I assumed it was a rarity. I can imagine that if you get those bottles at MSRP, the (relatively) small bourbon enthusiast base would make actually obtaining them better. 

 

I dream of a day when a site like Master of Malt has a US warehouse, and we can all order things back and forth to our heart's content on both sides of the Atlantic (without huge shipping fees). 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Sean Bond

[tanstaafl2]

40 minutes ago, Sean Bond said:

I dream of a day when a site like Master of Malt has a US warehouse, and we can all order things back and forth to our heart's content on both sides of the Atlantic (without huge shipping fees). 

 

While I appreciate the pain of shipping fees, having acquired many things from across the pond over the years, I doubt Masters of Malt or anyone else has much interest in having a US base as they would likely then be subject to the Byzantine myriad of state laws we currently are plagued with in getting liquor from one state to the next. Indeed it is likely easier to get things from overseas at the moment, if more expensive, because you simply can't get things shipped to you from many places within the US currently,.

[Sean Bond]

37 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

While I appreciate the pain of shipping fees, having acquired many things from across the pond over the years, I doubt Masters of Malt or anyone else has much interest in having a US base as they would likely then be subject to the Byzantine myriad of state laws we currently are plagued with in getting liquor from one state to the next. Indeed it is likely easier to get things from overseas at the moment, if more expensive, because you simply can't get things shipped to you from many places within the US currently,.

Oh, no doubt. I'm just fantasizing about what would be the "ideal" situation for me. You're definitely correct, since a lot of US retailers also won't ship to my state (Illinois), so there's always that wonderful little wrinkle.

[beasled]

3 hours ago, Sean Bond said:

Well in that case, I amend my statement, and would like to trade places with you! The only BTAC I saw in the UK (I only looked in London) was wildly overpriced (GTS for ~400£), so I assumed it was a rarity. I can imagine that if you get those bottles at MSRP, the (relatively) small bourbon enthusiast base would make actually obtaining them better. 

 

I dream of a day when a site like Master of Malt has a US warehouse, and we can all order things back and forth to our heart's content on both sides of the Atlantic (without huge shipping fees). 

 

Never paid more than £160 for Stagg, and that was for a 2010 bottle that I came across in 2014. £400 would have been somewhere gouging no doubt!

 

Would love to be able from the US more. As it is I rely on a single man in NY.. 

[smokinjoe]

On November 19, 2016 at 5:29 PM, 0895 said:

 

I'm with you.  I liked "BSV",  but then I tried "ESV" and fell in love.  It just works so well and makes a nice creamy/custard sweet type bourbon.

 

Another thing I stand by with four roses is that the bottles get much better with air time.  I'm always disappointed with them when I open new ones, but after a few weeks they evolve into something beautiful....kinda like a rose. 

I don't want to be pedantic here, but for clarity's sake, we should look to keep the abbreviations consistent.  It also helps in searching for info down the road.  "BSV" and   "ESV" should be presented as OBSV  and OESV, respectively.  

[Harry in WashDC]

On 12/16/2016 at 10:30 PM, smokinjoe said:

I don't want to be pedantic here, but for clarity's sake, we should look to keep the abbreviations consistent.  It also helps in searching for info down the road.  "BSV" and   "ESV" should be presented as OBSV  and OESV, respectively.  

Thanks, Dad, for the advice.

 

Joe, you have no idea how much I sincerely appreciate the work you and The Boss have done to make the abbreviation thing as seamless as possible for us.  More than once, I've typed what I THOUGHT was the likely abbreviation, or alternatively one I really liked, and NOT seen the dotted underline.  And, more than once I've tried some close abbreviations until I get the dots.  It has taken, maybe, a week of playing around to hit the "approved solution".  But, once learned, I remember like an elephant.

 

In other words: Excellent work.

[Kane]

So, I'm exploring barrel proof store picks seriously for the very first time. I need some pointers.

 

I don't like the regular SB, I want far less mint, rye spice, cinnamon in my bourbon, and more red fruits, brown sugar, caramel.

 

I drank an entire bottle of SmB LE 2014, did NOT enjoy it at all. SmB LE 2013 was okay. In contrast, Elliot's 2016 SB was AMAZING.

 

My theoretical understanding is I should be looking at low rye E recipes, and possibly V and Fs. I found multiple 11+yo OESFs, but then their tasting notes all include minty, herbal. I thought F was supposed to be fruity?

 

As you can see, I am confused. How accurate and consistent are the official recipe descriptions, and actual bottles of the same recipe from different stores in general? Is there any trick or guidelines to find the profile I am looking for? The cult to the rescue, please! Thanks!

[Kpiz]

2 hours ago, Kane said:

So, I'm exploring barrel proof store picks seriously for the very first time. I need some pointers.

 

I don't like the regular SB, I want far less mint, rye spice, cinnamon in my bourbon, and more red fruits, brown sugar, caramel.

 

I drank an entire bottle of SmB LE 2014, did NOT enjoy it at all. SmB LE 2013 was okay. In contrast, Elliot's 2016 SB was AMAZING.

 

My theoretical understanding is I should be looking at low rye E recipes, and possibly V and Fs. I found multiple 11+yo OESFs, but then their tasting notes all include minty, herbal. I thought F was supposed to be fruity?

 

I find this FR webpage pretty helpful: http://fourrosesbourbon.com/recipe-infographic/. It shows what unique characteristics each yeast and mashbill imparts, and you can even plug in a recipe and it'll tell you the characteristics (although it doesn't seem to be working right now). There's a little guide inside the hang-tag on private selections bottles as well (they still put those on there, right guys?). There's also a summary on the very first page of this thread.

 

Based on your general preferences and which releases you've enjoyed, I'd say you're more likely to enjoy OESV (delicate fruit), OESO (rich fruit) and OESQ (floral), but this is not a certainty since single barrels can vary so much. Elliott's Select was an OESK so you may want to try those as well, but that was a 14yo and I don't think the profile of a 14yo OESK and a 9-10yo OESK (age range for most store picks) are going to be very similar (same goes for other recipes). The regular FR single barrel is OBSV recipe, but I think they pick those to match a particular profile so I wouldn't rule out the V yeast, which to my palate tends to result in the most classic bourbon profile and I do not detect mint in the regular single barrel as you do. The F yeast generally imparts an herbal character so if you don't like mintyness then you may want to be cautious about those.

 

2 hours ago, Kane said:

As you can see, I am confused. How accurate and consistent are the official recipe descriptions, and actual bottles of the same recipe from different stores in general? Is there any trick or guidelines to find the profile I am looking for? The cult to the rescue, please! Thanks!

 

My personal research indicates that flavor profile can vary widely within each recipe depending upon the many variables of aging. This is true of any single barrel bourbon, really. To illustrate, of the OESFs I've tried and can remember: one was so minty it tasted like there were mint leaves muddled into it, one had just a light kiss of mintyness on the finish, one had a classic bourbon profile and didn't have any mint to my taste, and one didn't taste like much of anything at all. 

 

Flavor profile can vary within mashbill as well, so don't completely avoid the high-rye mashbill (B). My opinion is that there are a few factors that can contribute to spiciness in a bourbon, the percent of rye in the mashbill being just one of them (the sting of alcohol on the tongue being another, and I think it's hard to distinguish between the two sometimes). As always, YMMV and others may disagree.

 

To summarize my verbosity above, my advice is to use the recipes as a loose guide while keeping in mind that the simplistic profiles do not always hold true. Your personal preferences may lead you to believe you will/won't like a certain recipe, but there's enough variation within and across recipes that it's worth sampling all of them to develop an understanding of the range (although I realize it's not always worth risking $65-70 on a full bottle). The variation of their single barrels is what makes exploring them so fun, and part of why they have such a cult following here.

[Kane]

Thanks for the detailed response. I suppose the take away is "sample before you buy". I just tried an OESF 10 mins earlier, and wasn't a fan for example. Then I started whining and the owner gave me an OBSQ sample to shut me up, which was amazing, but he didn't have any more in stock.

 

I'll keep exploring.

[hn4bourbon]

2 minutes ago, Kane said:

Thanks for the detailed response. I suppose the take away is "sample before you buy". I just tried an OESF 10 mins earlier, and wasn't a fan for example. Then I started whining and the owner gave me an OBSQ sample to shut me up, which was amazing, but he didn't have any more in stock.

 

I'll keep exploring.

It sounds like you might want to give OESV and OESK a try. I have never tried OESO but the OESV is as described as light fruity and for my taste buds, I've found it to be one of the sweeter ones. I like OESK but it give me that cleaner, crisper feel.  Not sure if I'm helping...

[flahute]

7 hours ago, Kpiz said:

 

I find this FR webpage pretty helpful: http://fourrosesbourbon.com/recipe-infographic/. It shows what unique characteristics each yeast and mashbill imparts, and you can even plug in a recipe and it'll tell you the characteristics (although it doesn't seem to be working right now). There's a little guide inside the hang-tag on private selections bottles as well (they still put those on there, right guys?). There's also a summary on the very first page of this thread.

 

Based on your general preferences and which releases you've enjoyed, I'd say you're more likely to enjoy OESV (delicate fruit), OESO (rich fruit) and OESQ (floral), but this is not a certainty since single barrels can vary so much. Elliott's Select was an OESK so you may want to try those as well, but that was a 14yo and I don't think the profile of a 14yo OESK and a 9-10yo OESK (age range for most store picks) are going to be very similar (same goes for other recipes). The regular FR single barrel is OBSV recipe, but I think they pick those to match a particular profile so I wouldn't rule out the V yeast, which to my palate tends to result in the most classic bourbon profile and I do not detect mint in the regular single barrel as you do. The F yeast generally imparts an herbal character so if you don't like mintyness then you may want to be cautious about those.

 

 

My personal research indicates that flavor profile can vary widely within each recipe depending upon the many variables of aging. This is true of any single barrel bourbon, really. To illustrate, of the OESFs I've tried and can remember: one was so minty it tasted like there were mint leaves muddled into it, one had just a light kiss of mintyness on the finish, one had a classic bourbon profile and didn't have any mint to my taste, and one didn't taste like much of anything at all. 

 

Flavor profile can vary within mashbill as well, so don't completely avoid the high-rye mashbill (B). My opinion is that there are a few factors that can contribute to spiciness in a bourbon, the percent of rye in the mashbill being just one of them (the sting of alcohol on the tongue being another, and I think it's hard to distinguish between the two sometimes). As always, YMMV and others may disagree.

 

To summarize my verbosity above, my advice is to use the recipes as a loose guide while keeping in mind that the simplistic profiles do not always hold true. Your personal preferences may lead you to believe you will/won't like a certain recipe, but there's enough variation within and across recipes that it's worth sampling all of them to develop an understanding of the range (although I realize it's not always worth risking $65-70 on a full bottle). The variation of their single barrels is what makes exploring them so fun, and part of why they have such a cult following here.

 

7 hours ago, Kane said:

Thanks for the detailed response. I suppose the take away is "sample before you buy". I just tried an OESF 10 mins earlier, and wasn't a fan for example. Then I started whining and the owner gave me an OBSQ sample to shut me up, which was amazing, but he didn't have any more in stock.

 

I'll keep exploring.

Kyle pretty much nailed it. The 4R descriptions (and they do still provide that hang tag) don't always hold true. Also remember that the E mash bill is still 20% rye and can result in mintiness (though not very often). Trying before you buy is always the best if possible. Standard single barrel (OBSV) sometimes can be too minty for my preference, and other times it is amazingly classic bourbon with caramels and brown sugars. Just depends. What happens in the barrel can have more impact than the mash bill and yeast. 

If you can't try before you buy, be prepared to buy a bottle and try it in the parking lot. If it's not minty and you love it, go right back in the store and stock up.

[lcpfratn]

I fear I may be getting caught up in the 4R cult thing. I've had several OBSV bottles including some PS OBSV, and picked up a PS OBSO awhile back that I tasted and liked. I've recently picked up several bottles of OESK from a fantastic barrel, and picked up a bottle of an OESF today that I tasted previously in the store and thought it was a bit hot, but decided to go back and get one to give it another try. So, now I just know I'm going to be looking for the other 6 recipes as I shop around.


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[Paddy]

^^^^Standing firmly in the grasp of the 'cult'!

[lcpfratn]

^^^^Standing firmly in the grasp of the 'cult'!

I can't deny it. [emoji848][emoji15][emoji3]


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[The Black Tot]

I've only had a few ceremonies under my belt so far, but they've been good ones and I know I've got the faith. It won't be long before I feel comfortable identifying as a cultist.

 

It's a good thing I don't live near a "10 recipe store", I'd be broke as a joke!!!

[JCwhammie]

This is the first time I've seen a store name and age (8 years) on the 100 proof Single Barrell OBSV. I saw the side sticker and price ($40) and just about grabbed multiples until I realized it wasn't BS. Considering I can find the 4RSiB for about $32 around here I decided to pass. My curiosity is piqued, though. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by JCwhammie

[tanstaafl2]

1 hour ago, JCwhammie said:

This is the first time I've seen a store name and age (8 years) on the 100 proof Single Barrell OBSV. I saw the side sticker and price ($40) and just about grabbed multiples until I realized it wasn't BS. Considering I can find the 4RSiB for about $32 around here I decided to pass. My curiosity is piqued, though. 

 

You were always able to put the side label with logo and age on the OBSV 100 pf store selects. It is just that they haven't been around much of late because they only recently restarted barrel selections for them after a hiatus of 2 or so years.

[JoeTerp]

15 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

You were always able to put the side label with logo and age on the OBSV 100 pf store selects. It is just that they haven't been around much of late because they only recently restarted barrel selections for them after a hiatus of 2 or so years.

VA ABC recently did this with two barrels as well. I'm pretty sure this means you can get these without visiting the distillery.