Our ongoing observations about whether the boom has peaked

[musekatcher]

7 hours ago, meadeweber said:

That's not very manly.  

I don't know, watering down a bottle proof bourbon seems less manly to me

[jsrudd]

1 hour ago, fishnbowljoe said:

I'm not quite sure how to be politically correct here.  I don't want to lump the oriental markets into one big basket because I know that they're different. Regardless of that, trends usually have a tendency to be relative. The Japanese got on the bourbon band wagon a while back. China then became a point of interest and exploration into the bourbon/spirits world. I've heard that now, the Japanese have been slowly drifting away from bourbon a bit, and have started to become slightly enamored with craft beers. If true, will the Chinese soon follow? 

 

Any comments or insight from y'all over in Japan would be greatly appreciated.

 

Joe

 

Craft beer has definitely exploded in Japan over the last couple of years. I'm not sure the effect that it has on bourbon consumption.

 

Suntory has been pushing Beam White and Maker's Mark a lot since its acquisition of Beam. They've made a lot of headway in getting Beam and Soda taps into lots of restaurants.   

 

I think the Japanese whiskey boom has probably had more of an effect. The supply (and prices) of bourbon in Japan have gotten much worse over the past two or three years. Over the same time, tons of new Japanese whiskey expressions have launched at reasonable prices. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by jsrudd

[fishnbowljoe]

3 minutes ago, jsrudd said:

Craft beer has definitely exploded in Japan over the last couple of years. I'm not sure the effect that it has on bourbon consumption.

 

Suntory has been pushing Beam White and Maker's Mark a lot since its acquisition of Beam. They've made a lot of headway in getting Beam and Soda taps into lots of restaurants.   

 

I think the Japanese whiskey boom has probably had more of an effect. The supply (and prices) of bourbon in Japan have gotten much worse over the past two or three years. Over the same time, tons of new Japanese whiskey expressions have launched at reasonable prices. 

 

 

Thanks for the post John. 

 

See, I wasn't crazy.

 

Joe

[flahute]

1 hour ago, fishnbowljoe said:

I'm not quite sure how to be politically correct here.  I don't want to lump the oriental markets into one big basket because I know that they're different. Regardless of that, trends usually have a tendency to be relative. The Japanese got on the bourbon band wagon a while back. China then became a point of interest and exploration into the bourbon/spirits world. I've heard that now, the Japanese have been slowly drifting away from bourbon a bit, and have started to become slightly enamored with craft beers. If true, will the Chinese soon follow? 

 

Any comments or insight from y'all over in Japan would be greatly appreciated.

 

Joe

 

When I was in China a couple years ago, I searched high and low for bourbon in 5 of their major cities (including Beijing and Shanghai) and couldn't find anything except Jack. On our final day we stayed in a hotel that catered to American business visitors and they had........Beam White. 

I don't think the China boom ever happened.

[fishnbowljoe]

19 minutes ago, flahute said:

I don't think the China boom ever happened.

 

Personally, I hope it never does. Hell, we don't even have enough bourbon here. 

[flahute]

1 minute ago, fishnbowljoe said:

 

Personally, I hope it never does. Hell, we don't even have enough bourbon here. 

I bourbon were ever to really take off in China we'd be doomed. Those of us with deep bunkers would be sought out.

[Harry in WashDC]

13 hours ago, b1gcountry said:

Most manly of anything will pretty much lose my respect actually.

Manliness is being responsible and confident, but knowing yourself and your capabilities.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
 

"Manliness" is doing things in a manly manner with other men.  Hence, drinking whiskey/whisky with other men would be manly if you are drinking in a manly manner.  What better place to tout drinking spirits than in a fitness magazine?  Certainly, drinking whiskey/whisky in a manly manner is fitting.

 

Do you think I have a future in writing ad copy? Huh? Huh?

 

[Aside - I think my 2 oz. of JB BIB is telling this man he better get his butt in bed.  Good night, you all.]

[HoustonNit]

I don't see the Chinese as being a real market for bourbon. There's a lot of wealth in China but it's extremely concentrated. There might be a market at some point for very high end bourbon Michter's 20 yr, Pappy etc., but not necessarily for something like Booker's. The Chinese also love there Baijiu and pay a ridiculous premium for that paint thinner. As long they love that I wouldn't expect them to come to the wonderful sweet nectar of bourbon.

Basically the Chinese market doesn't exist unless your selling $5000 purses or other high end consumer products. That or 5 cent packets of Clorox so that normal people can wash there clothes by hands. There's no market for $40 bottles of bourbon.

[The Black Tot]

6 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

See, I wasn't crazy.

 

Let's not go too far.

[BourbonGuy]

I was watching a special on wine and China.  I think it was "Red Obsession" on NetFlix.  Interesting how they developed a taste for red wine and started their own vineyards.  Wonder if they built a few distilleries?  Speaking of oversea markets, don't for India.   

 

I guess the point of all this is, should the craze for bourbon cool a bit in the USA, they have other outlets to sell to.  Which I think is good.  A lot of money has been thrown into upgrading distilleries.  I hate to see these guys go out of business, which wouldn't be good for us.  Just want the craze to cool enough so they can manage inventory and see a few age statements (older bourbons) return to the market at reasonable prices.  IN the mean time my Buffalo Trace, Elijah Craig, Wild Turkey 101 and McKenna BIB will continue to be my daily pours at around $30 a bottle. 

[b1gcountry]

"Manliness" is doing things in a manly manner with other men.  Hence, drinking whiskey/whisky with other men would be manly if you are drinking in a manly manner.  What better place to tout drinking spirits than in a fitness magazine?  Certainly, drinking whiskey/whisky in a manly manner is fitting.
 
Do you think I have a future in writing ad copy? Huh? Huh?

You seem to be able to spell, so you can definitely work in advertising!

The under performing art students at my college were relegated into advertising...

[Richnimrod]

On 3/16/2017 at 10:17 PM, musekatcher said:

I don't know, watering down a bottle proof bourbon seems less manly to me

Damned Right!    Anybody who puts ice or (God Forbid; water) in his Everclear is a wussssss!  

[portwood]

On 3/17/2017 at 5:54 AM, BourbonGuy said:

I was watching a special on wine and China.  I think it was "Red Obsession" on NetFlix.  Interesting how they developed a taste for red wine and started their own vineyards.  Wonder if they built a few distilleries?  Speaking of oversea markets, don't for India.   

A lot of "whisky" is sold in India bottled with very Scottish sounding names ...

The Chinese are very good at copying brands

If the Chinese ever take to Bourbon (or other whisky) I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of it is produced locally and packaged to look similar to American big brands...

[tanstaafl2]

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 8:42 PM, portwood said:

A lot of "whisky" is sold in India bottled with very Scottish sounding names ...

The Chinese are very good at copying brands

If the Chinese ever take to Bourbon (or other whisky) I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of it is produced locally and packaged to look similar to American big brands...

 

A lot of "whisky" is sold in India that is made from sugar cane. In that case it doesn't matter what name they give it. It still sucks!

 

And we certainly can't count on China not to blatantly steal or make knock offs of Western and American brands if "whisky" ever did become really popular. After all, they have done that with everything else.

[Limegoldconvertible68]

I was talking to a distributor yesterday and he stated that last quarter his bourbon sales were flat and that was the first time in over two years that happened. Instead flavored whiskey is seeing the big sales increases and of those he specifically said Crown Royal Apple was huge. If that's true it makes me think many of the new bourbon buyers are moving on to something that's lower proof, sweeter and therefore easier to drink. 

[Saul_cooperstein]

With flavored whiskey it may also be sales to night clubs and lounges (on premises accounts) - not necessarily sales to off premises accounts and comparison off of a much lower base level. 

[Richnimrod]

7 minutes ago, Limegoldconvertible68 said:

I was talking to a distributor yesterday and he stated that last quarter his bourbon sales were flat and that was the first time in over two years that happened. Instead flavored whiskey is seeing the big sales increases and of those he specifically said Crown Royal Apple was huge. If that's true it makes me think many of the new bourbon buyers are moving on to something that's lower proof, sweeter and therefore easier to drink. 

We all can only hope this portends good things for our hobby, eh? 

[jvd99]

9 minutes ago, Limegoldconvertible68 said:

I was talking to a distributor yesterday and he stated that last quarter his bourbon sales were flat and that was the first time in over two years that happened. Instead flavored whiskey is seeing the big sales increases and of those he specifically said Crown Royal Apple was huge. If that's true it makes me think many of the new bourbon buyers are moving on to something that's lower proof, sweeter and therefore easier to drink. 

Safety pin bourbon?

[Nm0369]

I've always thought CR Apple just sounds horrible.  I can't help but think of Apple Pucker + regular CR.....yuck 

[Limegoldconvertible68]

35 minutes ago, Nm0369 said:

I've always thought CR Apple just sounds horrible.  I can't help but think of Apple Pucker + regular CR.....yuck 

My thought as well.  When he told me that I asked for clarification. It was being advertised on the marquis of the store we were at and I told him I thought it probably  wasn't selling well and they were trying to move it any way they could.  He said I couldn't be more wrong. If fact he said it's the first whiskey to ever sell 1 million cases in its first year of release. 

[Theiano]

5 minutes ago, Limegoldconvertible68 said:

My thought as well.  When he told me that I asked for clarification. It was being advertised on the marquis of the store we were at and I told him I thought it probably  wasn't selling well and they were trying to move it any way they could.  He said I couldn't be more wrong. If fact he said it's the first whiskey to ever sell 1 million cases in its first year of release. 

 

Kind of reminds me when all the different flavored vodkas started to come out, vanilla, cranberry etc. Honey whiskey, cinnamon whiskey, now apple whiskey....

 

[Limegoldconvertible68]

1 minute ago, Theiano said:

 

Kind of reminds me when all the different flavored vodkas started to come out, vanilla, cranberry etc. Honey whiskey, cinnamon whiskey, now apple whiskey....

 

And that was about the time Vodka peaked. 

[Nm0369]

I have no doubt that people are buying things like Crown Apple, but it's the same crowd that made Jaegermeister and Fireball popular.  Something "different" to throw down quickly and get drunk.

[jvd99]

Jaeger is a classic.  It's been a go to shot and base for a myriad of convictions in college bars for a few decades.  Ah, the good ole days 

[HoustonNit]

I've always thought CR Apple just sounds horrible.  I can't help but think of Apple Pucker + regular CR.....yuck [emoji33]

Why did you have to post this? Now I can't your perfect description out of my head.

Thanks a lot.