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View Full Version : George Dickel No 12 age?



brian12069
07-11-2004, 20:02
Does anyone know the age of this whiskey? Its quite a bit sweeter than most bourbons but non the less...a very enjoyable tennessee whiskey...anyone know the age?

cowdery
07-12-2004, 10:51
Since there is no age statement on the bottle, the true age is anyone's guess. The "No. 12" is supposed to make you think it's 12-years-old, but there is no reason to believe that is the case and every reason to believe it isn't. Tennessee whiskies mature fast because the charcoal mellowing process acts as a jump-start to aging. It's also likely that whiskies of different ages are combined to meet the desired taste profile. My guess would be that most of the whiskey in the mix is 5-6 years old.

brian12069
07-14-2004, 15:41
wow...you really think 5-6 years old?...I thought maybe just 3 or so...anyway it's good tastey stuff http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

cowdery
07-14-2004, 18:04
I was going to say that if it is less than four years old they have to say so, but that really isn't true with Tennessee Whiskey. From a legal standpoint, with Tennessee whiskey pretty much anything goes. They aren't bound by the requirements for straight bourbon, straight rye or any other "type" defined in the federal regs. They are bound by the legal definition of "whiskey," which is very generous, and by truth in labeling laws (they can't say something that is demonstrably untrue).

bourbonv
07-19-2004, 09:25
When I was at United Distillers the Dickel 12 was 10 years old and actually sold overseas as Dickel 10yo instead of No. 12. They closed the distillery down for several years because of over production and have only restarted the distillery in the past year or so. This means that all of their aged whiskey is going to be at least 6 years old or so. My tasting experience with the product in the last few years is that it is about 12 year old whiskey or older. As production continues, I suspect they will bring it back to the 10 year old range.

Dickel does not age well pat 10 years old and I think a lot of the off taste that comes out in the present product is due to the extra age. Some people refer to this taste as a "Flintstone chewable vitamin" aftertaste. I don't think it is that drastic, but it is there in some part.
Mike Veach

brian12069
07-19-2004, 18:08
When I was at United Distillers the Dickel 12 was 10 years old and actually sold overseas as Dickel 10yo instead of No. 12. They closed the distillery down for several years because of over production and have only restarted the distillery in the past year or so. This means that all of their aged whiskey is going to be at least 6 years old or so. My tasting experience with the product in the last few years is that it is about 12 year old whiskey or older. As production continues, I suspect they will bring it back to the 10 year old range.

Dickel does not age well pat 10 years old and I think a lot of the off taste that comes out in the present product is due to the extra age. Some people refer to this taste as a "Flintstone chewable vitamin" aftertaste. I don't think it is that drastic, but it is there in some part.
Mike Veach



so basically...it used to be 10 but now is at least 6 but more like 12 but will come back to 10 because 10 tastes better http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

angelshare
07-19-2004, 20:05
Thanks, Mike - I found this to be a very fascinating post. Could there be something about the "Lincoln County process" that affects how aging alters flavor? In other words, the point of diminishing return - or negative effect - seems to be about 10 years with Dickel. With JD...who knows? What's the oldest JD that has ever been available? I assume less than 10 years.

EC 12 & 18 are well received. ER 17 is sought after. Obviously, bourbon can be aged beyond 10 years favorably. It's interesting that of the two TN whiskies, the one that is aged longer (currently) is probably the more criticized of the two in this forum.

So...what's the story with Dickel 8?

TNbourbon
07-19-2004, 20:30
It's interesting that of the two TN whiskies, the one that is aged longer (currently) is probably the more criticized of the two in this forum.



Funny -- I guess it just shows how everyone's tastes differ -- but I think the Dickel #12 is the only Tennessee whisk(e)y worth drinking. I was gratified recently when the Beverage Testing Institute agreed with me:

Tastings.com (http://www.tastings.com/search_spirits.lasso?se=k&kw=Tennessee&sb=All&sf=S coreForSort)

Jack Daniel's Black #7, the most popular, is dead last. That's where I'd put that one, too, though I would swap places between Gentleman Jack and the JD Single Barrel.

angelshare
07-20-2004, 05:36
I have alluded to this earlier, but I may as well completely come out of the whiskey closet and say that in general, we like Tennessee whiskey. On the shelf right now are Dickel 12, Dickel 8, the dregs of a Dickel Special Barrel Reserve bottle, JD black, Gentleman Jack, and JD SB. It really is all a matter of taste.

Thanks for the link, too.!

So maybe the question I should pose is, of those of you out there who DON'T particularly like TN whiskey, which one would you choose? Is the criticism of Dickel 12 just a manifestation of more (reluctant?) Dickel consumption overall?

As folks who DO like TN whiskey, we probably prefer GJ if pressed.

Gillman
07-20-2004, 06:57
The Jack Daniel's products have a distinctive perfumedness which goes well with cola but I find it harder to drink JD (any iteration) on its own. I have had less experience with George Dickel, I do recall the no. 12 being available some years ago in Quebec and I sampled it next to the regular issue, both were good but not outstanding. The Dickel taste really seems quite different to JD to the point where I am not sure we can identify a common Tennessee style except to the extent it was created and is represented effectively by Jack Daniel's. It is a bit like Guinness Stout - this is the world's classic dry (bitter) stout and while there are small competitors and emulators here and there, in the end dry stout equals Guinness and vice versa (certainly in many parts of the world). The same is true, I feel, about Jack Daniel's and Tennessee whiskey.

Gary

Bob
07-20-2004, 07:10
Dave,

I'm among the crowd here that likes George Dickle #12. Beyond that, I really don't like any other TN whiskies.

Bob

OneCubeOnly
07-20-2004, 07:18
I'm among the crowd here that likes George Dickle #12. Beyond that, I really don't like any other TN whiskies.



I've tasted JD Black, JD Single Barrel, and Dickel #12. Of those, the Dickel is the only one I really cared for either. I'd buy it again, but more for a 'change of pace' than as a competitor for true bourbon.

bourbonv
07-20-2004, 07:32
I like Tennessee Whisky and particularly like the George Dickel products. That could be my prejudice for having worked for the company and spending many great days at the distillery with reporters and other overseas guests while at U.D.
The Dickel 8 was simply a 6-8 yo product at a lower proof. I think 80 proof is too low for any product so I prefer the Dickel 12. The Special Barrel Reserve was also the same whisky as the Dickel 12 at a lower proof.

The problem with the age question is that certain barrels age better than others. If you could pick and choose your barrels, then a 12 or 15 year old Dickel may be an outstanding product, but since all of their product is getting older than it was designed to be, then you have the not so good going in the product as well as the really good whisky. With that said, I still prefer the Dickel 12 with the lower quality over any of the Jack Daniel products, but would rate JD Single barrel next on my list followed by Dickel Special Barrel Reserve, Dickel 8, JD Black and finally Gentalman Jack.
Mike Veach

tlsmothers
07-22-2004, 17:44
I must say that I prefer GD in either form over JD Black when drinking neat. JD smells strongly of bananas to me. JD can work well in cocktails such as whiskey sours and Jack & Ginger. I usually go for the GD#12 but sometimes on a hot day the #8 hits the spot. Of the three JD bottles, I prefer the SB.

brian12069
07-29-2004, 05:08
Yesterday I was in a local liquor store and you know the tasting notes they put below the bottles sometimes?...well, it was below the Dickel #8 bottle and it said the #8 was eight years old and the #12 was twelve years old.

cowdery
07-29-2004, 11:00
below the Dickel #8 bottle and it said the #8 was eight years old and the #12 was twelve years old.



That's clearly what they would like you to believe but it's BS.

bourbonv
07-29-2004, 12:09
Chuck,
In the archive at U.D. there are papers that explain why Dickel is #8 and #12. They wanted to give it a number (to copy Old #7) and did a trademark search. These are the two numbers that had a clear slate and could be trademarked without legal difficulties. Age of product was never a factor in picking these numbers.
Mike Veach

cowdery
07-29-2004, 12:43
Logic would beg to differ somewhat. While a 9 would have been as good as an 8, or a 14 as good as a 12, a 2 or 29 probably wouldn't have been as useful. In other words, they wanted numbers that would imply long aging, even though the choice of the particular numbers was dictated by what could be legally cleared.

bourbonv
07-29-2004, 13:16
Chuck,
You are right to an extent with your logic. They did look at all number less than 21. They also had some historical precident. During prohibition they bought the last of the Jack Daniel whiskey and were going to bottle it as Jack Daniel #7. Lem Motlow sent them a letter saying they could not do that because he owned the trademark (This letter is in the archive). They did some research and found out the trademark was only for the "Old #7" and not the Jack Daniel name, so they bottled it as Jack Daniel Old #8. The letter they sent to Motlow was not very complimentary when they told him what they were going to do. I think you can now better understand why they sold out to Brown-Forman even though Schenley offered them more money.
Mike Veach

tlsmothers
07-29-2004, 14:59
That misinformation is prolly lack of education on both the sales rep and the store owner's parts. When I lead a Dickel Duel at LeNell's earlier this year, my Dickel rep showed up telling people that same BS. I had to pull him aside and educate him before letting him talk to any of my customers.

mike1
07-29-2004, 20:23
It does not make much sense to me ,but my Dickel No12 is distilled in Tennessee,but bottled in Canada. Apparantly they ship the stuff to a UD plant in Canada and then import it to the USA. Sounds a little convoluted to me

ratcheer
07-30-2004, 15:36
I'm too lazy to look up the thread, but this was discussed in depth two or three years ago. This year, they claim to have re-opened the distillery in Tennessee.

Tim

ratcheer
07-30-2004, 15:58
Here is that thread: Is Dickel in a pickle? (http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=other&Number=5772&Foru m=All_Forums&Words=dickel%20canada&Match=And&Searc hpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=5772&Search=tru e#Post5772)

Tim

cowdery
07-30-2004, 16:52
Dickel resumed distilling in September, 2003.

tlsmothers
07-30-2004, 20:35
You can read about the reopening on this page off their site: George Dickel Reopens (http://www.dickel.com/history/distillery.reopens.html)