Weller 12 flying off the shelves?

[benpearson]

In the past couple weeks, I've seen W12 on shelves in KY, and IN. I had an experience recently. I made a special trip to a store in Indy that usually has one of the better selections, and sometimes their own single barrel OWA (the main reason for the trip). Anyway, I got there to discover the bourbon shelves about 80% empty. The only stuff they had left was some bottom shelf stuff, and some NDP products. So then I decided to go look at a large store I had passed before, but never checked out. Everything was well stocked, and even some good deals. It just goes to show how different two stores in the same town can be.

The store you went to has been having some financial trouble, which is unfortunate. The other shelves in that store are 80% empty as well. Weller 12 IS available in the Indy area. Also, in Indiana it is not on allocation...at least not yet. Stores in the same area are quite different which I think is true everywhere.

[tarheel]

On my first distillery tour last year (around Thanksgiving) checked out Bourbon's Bistro to hopefully get a taste of a couple items we can't get down here in NC (that includes a lot!). My top choice was W12 - and they didn't have any! I was told nothing until sometime this year. What was amazing to me was that they had every PVW expression though. Luckily, I found some W12 on the shelf at a chain liquor store, can't remember the name. Tasty!

[JVande]

Here in Houston, I am seeing empty slots for the 1/2 gallon size, but 750ml and 1 liter still readily available.

[DeanSheen]

I'm just waiting for this to be discontinued. I had someone find me 3 1.75's in FLA recently while none was to be found in KY.

PS has had a 1 bottle limit posted on their site for some time for W12.

[boneuphtoner]

Here is Montgomery County MD, they have started allocating this...I got two bottles during the last shipment, and was told it would likely be only 1 in the future.

[balassit]

Went to another store this weekend, they are doing a 1 bottle allocation. Saw 1 on the shelf at another place, for $33. Seems a little steep for me.

On another note, I see mentions of 1L and 1.75L bottles, but in this area, I have never seen anything other than the 750 in the 12 yr.

I wish everyone would just stick to hunting for PVW and leave this behind for me

[suntour]

I have also never seen the 1.75 liters.

Had some friends in California last weekend, Bakersfield area, and they stopped at 4 different liquor stores. No luck. Grr.:smiley_acbt:

[Bmac]

I just bought a Weller 12 here in Mesquite's Liquor store. There are a few more.

[Old Dusty]

So is there a cynical assumption that the allocations in KY and scarcity elsewhere of this 12 yr wheated bourbon from BT might have some correlation to the forthcoming Fall 2013 release of some other highly anticipated wheated bourbons from BT?

Edit: I know, I know they are not the same (wink). But.....if there are a lot more 10/107 and Lot B's available then I'm just sayin'

Edited July 9, 2013 by Old Dusty

[MauiSon]

I'd be happy to see any Buffalo Trace wheater on the shelf in Honolulu.

[Jackinbox]

So is there a cynical assumption that the allocations in KY and scarcity elsewhere of this 12 yr wheated bourbon from BT might have some correlation to the forthcoming Fall 2013 release of some other highly anticipated wheated bourbons from BT?

Edit: I know, I know they are not the same (wink). But.....if there are a lot more 10/107 and Lot B's available then I'm just sayin'

I've been wondering the same thing.

[theglobalguy]

Given the price delta between the two, hope you guys are wrong. Much rather have easy access to W12.

I'm sticking with theory of a massively disjointed three tier system and it's supply chain.

[Jackinbox]

Given the price delta between the two, hope you guys are wrong. Much rather have easy access to W12.

I'm sticking with theory of a massively disjointed three tier system and it's supply chain.

I had inquired at a couple of stores regarding OWA a few weeks back and one of them called me today and left me a voicemail. I've transcribed it exactly below:

"About a week or so ago you asked about the Weller Antique Bourbon. I was just calling to let you know that the Antique has gone into what they're going to use for Pappy Van Winkle now. We don't have any left and the distributor does not have any left. But if you're looking for something along those lines, the 12 year is actually pretty comparable. If you have any questions, feel free to give us a call back."

I know he was telling the truth about the distributor being out as another store called the distributor for me a few days ago. I'm just not sure I'm buying the OWA/PVW connection. I could be wrong, but it would make more sense to me that the W12 would be the one being affected. This is a pretty large store with very knowledgeable sales people so I'm sure that's the story he was told. I'm just curious about where the story originated.

Whatever the case, I've got a few bottles of both W12 and OWA bunkered and I'll probably pick up a bottle or two of the TPS OWA on Saturday. So I'm covered for a while. Like you, I'd much prefer to have easy access to the Weller line. Even if they were to produce a larger amount of the PVW and ORVW expressions, they'll still be gone within a matter of days (if even that long).

[smknjoe]

I am very skeptical of any info from anyone other than the maker. On more than one occasion I have been given outright false information from people "in the know" only to get the true story straight from the manufacturer.

[cowdery]

The difference between Van Winkle and Weller is that they produce only as much Van Winkle as they want to produce, whereas they produce as much Weller as they can. I'm sure they've been increasing how much wheated bourbon they produce and virtually all of that goes into Weller. Weller does not affect Van Winkle nor vice versa because they aren't trying to meet demand with Van Winkle. They are with Weller. And Weller's volume, though small compared to something like Jim Beam, is huge compared to Van Winkle. This theory that Weller is becoming scarce because they are putting more into Van Winkle just doesn't hold water.

It is much easier to buy a drink of Van Winkle in a bar than it is to buy a bottle of it. Weller, on the other hand, has never had much on-premise presence except in Texas. In fact I love that about Texas. If Bourbon's Bistro wanted to have Weller 12 behind the bar they could. They might have to bend a law a little, but it could be done.

No, where Weller is scarce it's because Weller has been selling well. It's also because one of the many stupid things about beverage alcohol regulations is that you can't effectively move product around within the system to even out availability. If the pipeline is empty, it doesn't matter how much product there is in the marketplace overall. Once a store or bar is out they can't get more until the whole pipeline gets replenished.

Imagine this, especially if you're in any kind of business selling manufactured products. If your sales increase 10% this year and you were only planning on 5%, that's great. You're very happy and while you may have to step up your game, you won't leave anyone empty-handed. With whiskey, If your sales increase 10% this year and you were only planning on 5%, you're screwed. You can make a few adjustments but to a lot of people you'll be saying, "Sorry. You'll just have to wait." Scarcity is Van Winkle's brand, but these shortages are deadly for the Makers and Wellers of world. For Van Winkle, scarcity good. For Maker's and Weller, scarcity bad.

Edited July 9, 2013 by cowdery

[smknjoe]

...and Chuck has just given credibility to my past statements that the shortages are just regional, not national.

Thanks for your insight Chuck.

[cowdery]

They're regional and sporadic.

[jburlowski]

One side note of all this is, as these "shortages" play out, I'm seeing more liters and handles and plastic bottles on the shelves. Apparently distributors and retailers are grabbing whatever stock is available.

[BB Slim]

For what it's worth to you guy's in Indy, I saw three bottles of Weller 12 on the shelf at the Crown Liquior in Zionsville (corner of Michigan Ave and 106th I believe). All of the other stores on the North side were dry.

[mark fleetwood]

We need to kill this thread right now, stop talking about it and open a new one about how scare Benchmark seems to be getting, in fact heard of a guy whose sister's fiance who works at Goldman Sachs was seen leaving TPS with a case.

[P&MLiquorsEric]

The difference between Van Winkle and Weller is that they produce only as much Van Winkle as they want to produce, whereas they produce as much Weller as they can. I'm sure they've been increasing how much wheated bourbon they produce and virtually all of that goes into Weller. Weller does not affect Van Winkle nor vice versa because they aren't trying to meet demand with Van Winkle. They are with Weller. And Weller's volume, though small compared to something like Jim Beam, is huge compared to Van Winkle. This theory that Weller is becoming scarce because they are putting more into Van Winkle just doesn't hold water.

It is much easier to buy a drink of Van Winkle in a bar than it is to buy a bottle of it. Weller, on the other hand, has never had much on-premise presence except in Texas. In fact I love that about Texas. If Bourbon's Bistro wanted to have Weller 12 behind the bar they could. They might have to bend a law a little, but it could be done.

No, where Weller is scarce it's because Weller has been selling well. It's also because one of the many stupid things about beverage alcohol regulations is that you can't effectively move product around within the system to even out availability. If the pipeline is empty, it doesn't matter how much product there is in the marketplace overall. Once a store or bar is out they can't get more until the whole pipeline gets replenished.

Imagine this, especially if you're in any kind of business selling manufactured products. If your sales increase 10% this year and you were only planning on 5%, that's great. You're very happy and while you may have to step up your game, you won't leave anyone empty-handed. With whiskey, If your sales increase 10% this year and you were only planning on 5%, you're screwed. You can make a few adjustments but to a lot of people you'll be saying, "Sorry. You'll just have to wait." Scarcity is Van Winkle's brand, but these shortages are deadly for the Makers and Wellers of world. For Van Winkle, scarcity good. For Maker's and Weller, scarcity bad.

Well said.

Order filling and production logistics at a distillery are not simple.. When KY is out of weller 12, they cant just stop filling orders in the pipeline from others states to ensure it stays on the shelf here. If the current orders take up all the supply, kentucky isnt going to see any more until it is bottled again. And the wheated/weller lines are not dumped and bottled on a daily basis.

We are not talking about a retail operation taking an order, filling a box with warehoused goods and shipping it off the next day. the production/bottling side has to be in sync with sales forecasting and logistics.

[Old Dusty]

Well said.

Order filling and production logistics at a distillery are not simple.. When KY is out of weller 12, they cant just stop filling orders in the pipeline from others states to ensure it stays on the shelf here. If the current orders take up all the supply, kentucky isnt going to see any more until it is bottled again. And the wheated/weller lines are not dumped and bottled on a daily basis.

We are not talking about a retail operation taking an order, filling a box with warehoused goods and shipping it off the next day. the production/bottling side has to be in sync with sales forecasting and logistics.

Well, that's why this forum profits from having people plugged into the industry. Otherwise the rest of us would sit around and toss out idle speculation, rumor and innuendo. Not that there is anything wrong with that-it is the Internet after all :grin:

[Jackinbox]

Order filling and production logistics at a distillery are not simple.. When KY is out of weller 12, they cant just stop filling orders in the pipeline from others states to ensure it stays on the shelf here. If the current orders take up all the supply, kentucky isnt going to see any more until it is bottled again. And the wheated/weller lines are not dumped and bottled on a daily basis.

[theglobalguy]

Would suspect it has as much to do with demand and supply/schedule of other lines as well. Mixed model production in a sense since this isn't all they make.

So would think it's about:

- capacity of the bottling line + supply of appropriately aged barrels + priority relative to other lines = When

[cowdery]

When the cupboard is bare, they bottle as soon as enough of the whiskey is ready. Buffalo Trace has a ton of bottling capacity. The thing they can't rush is the age of the whiskey.

They need to talk to this guy in Cleveland...