Lazer Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Has anybody memorized the entire whiskey tree yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucker Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?19879Recent tour of Dickel...The barrels have a #4 char on the body (staves) and #2 on the heads and are sourced from KY.The mashbill is 84/8/8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 There's a new Brew Pub that opened here this weekend and the whiskey list boldly proclaims that Maker's Mark is a 51/49 wheat bourbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasking Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 If the reason the actual data for LDI is not in the tree is simply because nobody's bothered to type it up, here it is:LDI, ??? char, Independent Stave?Wheat Bourbon (51/45/4)Malt Bourbon (51/0/49)Lower Rye Bourbon (75/21/4)Higher Rye Bourbon (60/36/4) - Smooth Ambler Old Scout*?Corn Bourbon (99/0/1)Corn Whiskey (81/15/4)Malt Whiskey (0/0/100)Rye Whiskey (0/51/49)51% Rye Whiskey (45/51/4) – Templeton Rye*?95% Rye Whiskey (0/95/5) – Bulleit Rye*95% Wheat Whiskey (0/95/5)Sells bourbon and rye for many brands including Redemption et al, High West, W.H. Harrison, Cougar (Australia), and KBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 The new TPS single barrel SA Old Scouts are the 21% low rye bourbons. Don't know how that translates to the primary line.Edit: The older TPS 7 year bottles are the 36%. That's probably what the standard issue is as well. But it makes me wonder about VOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettckeen Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 chasking i believe the templeton is the 95 5 aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qman22 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 The new TPS single barrel SA Old Scouts are the 21% low rye bourbons. Don't know how that translates to the primary line.Edit: The older TPS 7 year bottles are the 36%. That's probably what the standard issue is as well. But it makes me wonder about VOS.I'm pretty sure VOS is the 21% rye as well. I remember reading that sometime around their release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrvinal Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 The link doesn't work. Anywhere else I can get it. I want a copy for my whiskey club meeting tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 The link doesn't work. Anywhere else I can get it. I want a copy for my whiskey club meeting tonight. Which one doesn't work? The MGPI one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 If the reason the actual data for LDI is not in the tree is simply because nobody's bothered to type it up, here it is:LDI, ??? char, Independent Stave?Wheat Bourbon (51/45/4)Malt Bourbon (51/0/49)Lower Rye Bourbon (75/21/4)Higher Rye Bourbon (60/36/4) - Smooth Ambler Old Scout*?Corn Bourbon (99/0/1)Corn Whiskey (81/15/4)Malt Whiskey (0/0/100)Rye Whiskey (0/51/49)51% Rye Whiskey (45/51/4) – Templeton Rye*?95% Rye Whiskey (0/95/5) – Bulleit Rye*95% Wheat Whiskey (0/95/5)Sells bourbon and rye for many brands including Redemption et al, High West, W.H. Harrison, Cougar (Australia), and KBDThat would be why. Thanks for typing it up! I don't think I will include the mashbills without products attached in the next edition, but it is all here in the thread for anyone to see. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andykeck Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 If the reason the actual data for LDI is not in the tree is simply because nobody's bothered to type it up, here it is:LDI, ??? char, Independent Stave?)Rye Whiskey (0/51/49)51% Rye Whiskey (45/51/4) – Templeton Rye*?95% Rye Whiskey (0/95/5) – Bulleit Rye*Sells bourbon and rye for many brands including Redemption et al, High West, W.H. Harrison, Cougar (Australia), and KBDFor the record, the Templeton website still says they're the 95% rye mashbill. Well actually, they say 90+% specifically, but we all know what that leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl2 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 That would be why. Thanks for typing it up! I don't think I will include the mashbills without products attached in the next edition, but it is all here in the thread for anyone to see. Thanks!I don't think any of the new mash bills likely have a product associated with them yet because they are so new. Should probably distinguish them from the original mash bills.MGP (formerly LDI), ??? char, Independent Stave?Original mash billsLower Rye Bourbon (75/21/4)Higher Rye Bourbon (60/36/4) - Smooth Ambler Old Scout*?Corn Bourbon (99/0/1)"Light" Whiskey (99/0/1) - Not clear what this is. Unaged?Corn Whiskey (81/15/4)95% Rye Whiskey (0/95/5) – Bulleit Rye*, Templeton Rye*?New mash bills - As of April 2013Rye Whiskey (0/51/49)Rye Whiskey (45/51/4) 95% Wheat Whiskey (0/95/5)100% Barley Malt Whiskey (0/0/100)Wheat Bourbon (51/45/4)Barley Malt Bourbon (51/0/49) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Thanks to everybody for all the posts regarding the MGPI mashbills I really think that to keep this from spinning out of control, the tree needs to stick to mashbills and other data that goes with products actually on the shelves. Including products that used to exist or may exist in the future is a black hole from which there is no escape.I'll update the tree this week if I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChainWhip Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 While not quite the same as the Whiskey tree maintained here, GQ put out a visual representation recently: http://www.gq.com/images/life/2013/11/bourbon-tree/bourbon-family-tree-large.jpg (image from GQ Magazine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TunnelTiger Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 CW - thanks for this view - totally cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl2 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) Interesting but suggests a lack of true whiskey nerdiness was involved in the creation! Also interesting that they show a lack of separation between BF and HH while most everything else has a line separating them where appropriate. For example while it may soon be true the current Saz 18 and VWFRR don't really belong on the same branch of the BT tree do they? And the two older Pappy's are in a state of transition from one branch to another. Four roses ought to have ten trunks with branches growing to gether rather like a Banyan tree!Old Fitz seems to branch off a wee bit early on the HH tree for some reason. JD rye doesn't rate a mention while Dickel Rye, Jacob's Ghost and other white dogs make an appearance.And I guess they have no clue what to do with the various CEHT or PHC expersions! Edited November 14, 2013 by tanstaafl2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiSon Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 It does help to emphasize the rarity of well-aged stock, tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChainWhip Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 For example while it may soon be true the current Saz 18 and VWFRR don't really belong on the same branch of the BT tree do they? And the two older Pappy's are in a state of transition from one branch to another. Well put B! Honestly, I'd like to see a time-elapse GIF of this illustration with the expressions jumping between different distilleries/trees over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Well put B! Honestly, I'd like to see a time-elapse GIF of this illustration with the expressions jumping between different distilleries/trees over time. That what make a fun chart even more fun! Thanks for sharing that! Very cool.Hoping to post the new version soon. Gonna add the known MGPI mashbills and take away the (high barley?) speculation from Barton-1792 section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryT Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I wondered about the placement of some, like the ETL looks like it well below Blantons and AAA 10 yr, when ETL is bottled (at least recently) closer to 9 yrs (and I read somewhere that Harlen said Blantons was typically in the 6-8 yr range). Interesting display of information though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickert Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Interesting but suggests a lack of true whiskey nerdiness was involved in the creation! Perhaps, but as mainstream publications go, this one is SIGNIFICANTLY better than most. There are no gross misrepresentations or complete lunacy. Perhaps not the most detailed, but it gives an accurate picture of the industry and what comes from where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshani Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) That tree view is fascinating - I love how some related branches wrap, and how Willett mostly has a ghost tree. But it is missing things. Just from my quick observation: There is no rye branch for Wild Turkey at all despite at least three expressions (WT101, WT81, RR). Edit: Russell's Reserve is also misspelled, leaving an L out of Russell. A lot of cats-and-dogs labels are missing, especially from Barton and Heaven Hill. This is probably due to both space consideration and lack of product awareness of those labels amongst GQ's trendy audience. Parker's Heritage Collection is missing from the Heaven Hill tree, but the graphic includes similar high-end offerings from Buffalo Trace and Woodford Reserve. The Bulleit branch of the Four Roses Tree intertwines with a branch from the George Dickel tree, when it should logically extend further over to intertwine with a rye branch of the MGPI tree for the Bulleit Rye. (The error could stand on a technicality, since Bulleit is owned by Diageo which also owns Dickel, but the graphic doesn't mention that.) A graphic similar to this but taking into account the breadth and scope of the list we have here would be fascinating. And probably eyestrain-inducing. Edited November 17, 2013 by shoshani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalessin Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Interesting but suggests a lack of true whiskey nerdiness was involved in the creation! Also interesting that they show a lack of separation between BF and HH while most everything else has a line separating them where appropriate. Four roses ought to have ten trunks with branches growing to gether rather like a Banyan tree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HP12 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 And the corrections continue to roll in, which is a good thing!:cool: ----------------------------------------------------Mashbill Source: Regan & Regan, The Book of Bourbon and Other Fine American Whiskeys (London: Mixellany) 2009, unless otherwise noted. Barton, WT, and Dickel are noted as approximate. Brand Name (%corn/%rye or wheat/%malted barley)Whiskey Tree, 5.2Note: These tree is only a breakdown of "macro" distillersBarton-1792, #3 char, Independent StaveBarton (75/15/10)- Very Old Barton all proofs +???1792 (high barley?)- 1792 Ridgemont Reserve, +???Other Bourbons: Tom Moore BiB, Kentucky Gentleman, Kentucky Tavern, Ten High, Walker's Delluxe, other "cats & dogs".The rest, unknownRye 37/53/10? (speculation based on label of High West Double Rye!)- Fleischman's Rye Before it was purchased by Sazerac, sold to a lot of NDPs.Beam, #4 char, Independent StaveBeam Mashbill (76/13/10)- all JB bourbons, Old Crow, Old Taylor*, Knob Creek, Baker's, Booker'sOld Grandad Mashbill (63/27/10)- OGD, Basil HaydenRye- JB Rye, Old Overholt, Ri¹, Knob Creek RyeBrown-Forman, #3 char, Brown-Forman CooperageOld Forester (72/18/10)- Old Forester, Woodford ReserveEarly Times (79/11/10)Jack Daniels (80/8/12)Rye (see Heaven Hill below)- Current source of Heaven Hill's Pikeville and Rittenhouse ryes.Also sells to many NDPs.Buffalo Trace, #4 char, Independent Stave#1, higher corn BT White Dog, Benchmark, Buffalo Trace, Old Charter, Eagle Rare, Col. E.H. Taylor, Geo. T. Stagg#2, lower corn- Ancient Age*, Elmer T. Lee*, Hancock*, Blanton's*, Rock Hill Farms*, Virginia Gentleman/Bowman Bourbons?Wheat bourbon: Everything Weller, Van Winkle Special Reserve "Lot B"*, Old Rip Van Winkle*, Pappy Van Winkle 15 y/o*Rye: Sazerac, Bowman Rye, Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye* (?)Diageo, char #3, Indpendent StaveDickel (80/12/8)George Dickel, Cascade HollowFour Roses, #3.5 char, Independent StaveHas 2 mashbills and 5 yeasts.All Ten Combinations- Four Roses (yellow label)OBSK, OBSO, OESK, OESO- Four Roses Small BatchOBSV- Four Roses Single BarrelAll the combinations are also available as Single Barrel, Barrel Strength retailer bottlings.Also sells whiskey to Diageo that goes into Bulleit (from the high rye OBS recipes) and I.W. Harper (not available in the U.S.) and produces the overseas version of McKenna. For more information, including mashbills, see Oscar's chart here.Heaven Hill, #3 char, Indpendent StaveRye Bourbon (75/13/12)- Heaven Hill, J.T.S. Brown, T.W. Samuels, Evan Williams, Elijah Craig, Henry McKenna (U.S.), Parker's Heritage (except for 2010), etc. Also probably the source of Luxco's Ezra Brooks line and the current Yellowstone.Wheat Bourbon- Old Fitzgerald, Parker's Heritage 2010. Also probably the source of Luxco's Rebel Yell and Rebel Reserve.Wheat Whiskey- Bernheim OriginalRye Whiskey (37/51/12, aprox.)**- Future source of Rittenhouse 80 & BiB, Stephen Foster, current source of Pikesville, Rittenhouse 21 & 23 (?)Corn Whiskey: Mellow Corn, JW Corn, Georgia Moon, Dixie Dew, Platte Valley*Also sells to many NDPs.LDI, ??? char, Independent Stave?Sells bourbon and rye for many brands including Templeton, Redemption et al, High West, W.H. Harrison, Cougar (Australia), Bulleit Rye and KBD. For a breakdown of the of corn, rye and bourbon whiskey mashbills used, see the MGP website: http://www.mgpingredients.com/product-list/Maker's Mark, #3 char, Independent StaveMaker's Mark (70/16/14)Wild Turkey, #4 "the heavy char", Independent StaveBourbon (75/13/12)- Wild Turkey, Russell's Reserve BourbonRye (37/51/12, aprox.)**- Wild Turkey Rye, Russell's Reserve RyeBrands on the market with whiskey from closed distilleries:Medley Rye- Older bottlings of Hirsch, post-PA Michter's(?), Black Maple Hill rye, others?Mix of Medley Rye and Cream of Kentucky rye (Bernheim distillery)- Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye. Stitzel-Weller bourbon- Pappy Van Winkle (20 & 23 only?), Jefferson's Reserve 17, 18, Vintage 17 etcA few American bottlers and/or marketers have been purchasing 100% rye rye from a Canadian distillery or distilleries. It is often presumed these are from Alberta distillers in Calgary, but as of yet there is no firm evidence. So far, these are Whistle Pig, Jefferson's and Masterson's Rye. Jefferson's may be switching to American-made rye.*Brand(s) not wholly owned by the distiller.**Based on more current information.PROBLEMS/QUESTIONS/CONTROVERSIES: Regan & Regan list an approximate mashbill for all the bourbons made at "Ancient Age Distillery" as 80/10/10. That can't be right, but which mashbill does that represent, #1 or #2?Also, a mashbill of 75/20/5 is listed for Old Fitz, Weller and Rebel Yell while at Bernheim. What is the current mashbill?How much Stitzel-Weller is in Pappys 20 & 23, if any? Also how much of what is being marketed as S-W was really made at Bernheim?How much Medley and Cream of Kentucky Rye does VWFRR contain, and how much Buffalo Trace distillate?Are the Bowman bourbons really made from mashbill #2?Again, if anybody sees anything screwy, don't be shy! Post it here so it can be corrected.--------------------------------------------------------Time for a bump. I hate chasing this post deep in the thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creggor Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ok Thanks for the reply.. I am making a copy for my files.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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