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CorvallisCracker

Beam, #4 char, Indepnedent Stave

Beam Mashbill- all JB bourbons, Old Crow, Old Taylor*, Knob Creek, Baker's, Booker's

Old Grandad Mashbill- OGD, Basil Hayden

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Josh
See this post. Third paragraph.

Credible? You decide.

It's second hand from a guy who's written a book, produced a movie, and written a lot of a newsletters on the subject and the guy he got it from would have known what he was talking about.

So it's not 100% water-tight, but it's much better than what we currently have, which is squat.

Obsolete link.

Replaced by this one on the MGP (new owners) site.

The percentage of rye is indicated for the Rye Whiskey, but for the three bourbons it would appear that the figure given is for the percentage that is not corn, which suggests that whoever authored the page is not what you'd call bourbon knowledgeable.

Thanks for the updates! I'll get the tree in line at the earliest opportunity.

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cowdery

I know from numerous confirmations, from Fred Noe and other Beam insiders, that Beam makes one rye mash bill.

And if you read between the lines on the Baker's label, it really just describes the Beam yeast, it doesn't say only Baker's uses it. Beam has two yeasts but the other one is the Old Grand-Dad yeast, used for Old Grand-Dad and Basil Hayden's.

I've made it a point to check with all of the distillers who make rye on the mash bill question and all have confirmed that they are right at 51%. The exception, of course, is LDI.

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Smithford
I've made it a point to check with all of the distillers who make rye on the mash bill question and all have confirmed that they are right at 51%. The exception, of course, is LDI.

There's an ancient thread in the archives here with a post by Bushido claiming different rye percentages across various producers (Overholt at 61%, WT at 55%, etc...). That info has been officially debunked then?

p.s. Yes, that's what I do for fun - searching the archives here is almost as entertaining as dusty hunting.

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Josh
There's an ancient thread in the archives here with a post by Bushido claiming different rye percentages across various producers (Overholt at 61%, WT at 55%, etc...). That info has been officially debunked then?

p.s. Yes, that's what I do for fun - searching the archives here is almost as entertaining as dusty hunting.

I would say yes. His source seems to be the same.

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cowdery

There's a lot of "I heard" out there. Also, I love Jim Murray, he's the hardest working man in whiskey writing, but he does make statements that seem drawn only from his vivid imagination, reviewing at times products that do not exist, for example.

I keep asking distillers the rye mash bill question and keep getting the same answer, which is supported by the explanation. Rye is expensive (twice the cost of corn) and a little goes a long way, so 51% gives you plenty of rye flavor. Most distillers also believe corn is needed to give the beverage a back bone. Obviously, the people who like the 95% to 100% flavoring whiskeys that have been released differ, but I sometimes have that reaction, i.e., I miss the corn.

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ethangsmith

I don't know if "historical" mashbills are being added to the whiskey tree yet, but I can tell you Michter's from Schaefferstown used:

50% corn

38% rye

12% barley malt

to make Michter's Pot Still Whiskey. As for the barrels, all I have seen have a pretty heavy char inside them. I'm not sure of the bourbon, rye, and corn mashbills, but I could ask Dick about them next time I see him.

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cowdery
I don't know if "historical" mashbills are being added to the whiskey tree yet, but I can tell you Michter's from Schaefferstown used:

50% corn

38% rye

12% barley malt

to make Michter's Pot Still Whiskey. As for the barrels, all I have seen have a pretty heavy char inside them. I'm not sure of the bourbon, rye, and corn mashbills, but I could ask Dick about them next time I see him.

What's your source? Dick Stoll?

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ethangsmith

Yes. Dick had told me that on a few different occasions. He also told me that Michter's was generally aged in re-used barrels as well.

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cowdery
Yes. Dick had told me that on a few different occasions. He also told me that Michter's was generally aged in re-used barrels as well.

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Josh
I don't know if "historical" mashbills are being added to the whiskey tree yet, but I can tell you Michter's from Schaefferstown used:

50% corn

38% rye

12% barley malt

to make Michter's Pot Still Whiskey. As for the barrels, all I have seen have a pretty heavy char inside them. I'm not sure of the bourbon, rye, and corn mashbills, but I could ask Dick about them next time I see him.

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dgonano

And Michters was called "Pennsylvania Sour Mash Whiskey". There was no grain 51% or higher. There was no claim of being a "Straight Whiskey". So used barrels would make sense. They wanted the whiskey to be naturally smoother. They also had hopes their brand would compete with JD as a non-bourbon whiskey.

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dgonano

BTW Josh, a very nice comprehensive list. One you probably are sorry to have started.

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ethangsmith

Correct. It was a mix of new and used, but the bulk of it was in used cooperage. It was so they could make Michter's less expensive and sell more, but unfortunately it didn't work so well anyway. My guess is that the heavy char in the barrels allowed them to be reused easily and still impart a nice oak and char flavor to the Michter's "pot still" whiskey. That, and since they weren't selling much, the 6 years probably turned into 10 or more pretty quickly! I know Dick said they would often be barreling 15 to 20 year old bourbons and ryes because they were "left over stock." If only I could get my hands on bottles of that stuff!

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cowdery
Correct. It was a mix of new and used, but the bulk of it was in used cooperage. It was so they could make Michter's less expensive and sell more, but unfortunately it didn't work so well anyway. My guess is that the heavy char in the barrels allowed them to be reused easily and still impart a nice oak and char flavor to the Michter's "pot still" whiskey. That, and since they weren't selling much, the 6 years probably turned into 10 or more pretty quickly! I know Dick said they would often be barreling 15 to 20 year old bourbons and ryes because they were "left over stock." If only I could get my hands on bottles of that stuff!

Has he told you what their bourbon and rye mash bills were?

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ethangsmith

Not yet. I'll get that information the next time I talk to him. He did say they had one bourbon mashbill and 2 rye mashbills- One being for Sam Thompson (which had a higher percentage of rye grain) and the other being their standard mashbill for all other rye products.

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White Dog

Bumpidy Bump Bump.

On the Malt Advocate's blog they're stating that the now-live Willett Distillery is mashing Bourbon with 72%Corn, 13%Rye, and 15%Barley.

Seems like a crazy-high percentage of Barley, but supposedly it's the old Willett Family recipe. Very cool.

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ethangsmith

Is Wild Turkey's mashbill really that high in corn? I thought it was a high rye content bourbon like OGD. By the most recent chart, it looks like Old Forester would be the highest rye content bourbon on the list, which I find hard to believe.

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Josh
Is Wild Turkey's mashbill really that high in corn? I thought it was a high rye content bourbon like OGD. By the most recent chart, it looks like Old Forester would be the highest rye content bourbon on the list, which I find hard to believe.

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Josh
Bumpidy Bump Bump.

On the Malt Advocate's blog they're stating that the now-live Willett Distillery is mashing Bourbon with 72%Corn, 13%Rye, and 15%Barley.

Seems like a crazy-high percentage of Barley, but supposedly it's the old Willett Family recipe. Very cool.

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Josh

Mashbill Source: Regan & Regan, The Book of Bourbon and Other Fine American Whiskeys (London: Mixellany) 2009, unless otherwise noted. Barton, WT, and Dickel are noted as approximate.

Brand Name (%corn/%rye or wheat/%malted barley)

Whiskey Tree, 5.0

Note: These tree is only a breakdown of "macro" distillers

Barton-1792, #3 char, Independent Stave

Barton (75/15/10)- Very Old Barton all proofs +???

1792 (high barley?)- 1792 Ridgemont Reserve, +???

Other Bourbons: Tom Moore BiB, Kentucky Gentleman, Kentucky Tavern, Ten High, Walker's Delluxe, other "cats & dogs".The rest, unknown

Rye 37/53/10? (speculation based on label of High West Double Rye!)- Fleischman's Rye

Before it was purchased by Sazerac, sold to a lot of NDPs.

Beam, #4 char, Indepnedent Stave

Beam Mashbill (76/13/10)- all JB bourbons, Old Crow, Old Taylor*, Knob Creek, Baker's, Booker's

Old Grandad Mashbill (63/27/10)- OGD, Basil Hayden

Rye- JB Rye, Old Overholt, Ri¹, Knob Creek Rye

Brown-Forman, #3 char, Brown-Forman Cooperage

Old Forester (72/18/10)- Old Forester, Woodford Reserve

Early Times (79/11/10)

Jack Daniels (80/8/12)

Rye (see Heaven Hill below)- Current source of Heaven Hill's Pikeville and Rittenhouse ryes.

Also sells to many NDPs.

Buffalo Trace, #4 char, Independent Stave

#1, higher corn BT White Dog, Benchmark, Buffalo Trace, Old Charter, Eagle Rare, Col. E.H. Taylor, Geo. T. Stagg

#2, lower corn- Ancient Age*, Elmer T. Lee*, Hancock*, Blanton's*, Rock Hill Farms*, Virginia Gentleman/Bowman Bourbons?

Wheat bourbon: Everything Weller, Van Winkle Special Reserve "Lot B"*, Old Rip Van Winkle*, Pappy Van Winkle 15 y/o*

Rye: Sazerac, Bowman Rye, Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye* (?)

Diageo, char #3, Indpendent Stave

Dickel (80/12/8)George Dickel, Cascade Hollow

Four Roses, #3.5 char

Has 2 mashbills and 5 yeasts.

All Ten Combinations- Four Roses (yellow label)

OBSK, OBSO, OESK, OESO- Four Roses Small Batch

OBSV- Four Roses Single Barrel

All the combinations are also available as Single Barrel, Barrel Strength retailer bottlings.

Also sells whiskey to Diageo that goes into Bulleit (from the high rye OBS recipes) and I.W. Harper (not available in the U.S.) and produces the overseas version of McKenna. For more information, including mashbills, see Oscar's chart here.

Heaven Hill, #3 char, Indpendent Stave

Rye Bourbon (75/13/12)- Heaven Hill, J.T.S. Brown, T.W. Samuels, Evan Williams, Elijah Craig, Henry McKenna (U.S.), Parker's Heritage (except for 2010), et al. Also probably the source of Luxco's Ezra Brooks line and the current Yellowstone.

Wheat Bourbon- Old Fitzgerald, Parker's Heritage 2010. Also probably the source of Luxco's Rebel Yell and Rebel Reserve.

Wheat Whiskey- Bernheim Original

Rye Whiskey (37/51/12, aprox.)**- Future source of Pikesville and Rittenhouse 80 & BiB, Stephen Foster, current source of Rittenhouse 21 & 23 (?)

Corn Whiskey: Mellow Corn, JW Corn, Georgia Moon, Platte Valley*

Also sells to many NDPs.

LDI, ??? char, Independent Stave?

Sells bourbon and rye for many brands including Templeton, Redemption et al, High West, W.H. Harrison, Cougar (Australia), Bulleit Rye and KBD. For a breakdown of the of corn, rye and bourbon whiskey mashbills used, see the MGP website: http://www.mgpingredients.com/product-list/

Maker's Mark, #3 char, Independent Stave

Maker's Mark (70/16/14)

Wild Turkey, #4 "the heavy char", Independent Stave

Bourbon (75/13/12)- Wild Turkey, Russell's Reserve Bourbon

Rye (37/51/12, aprox.)**- Wild Turkey Rye, Russell's Reserve Rye

Brands on the market with whiskey from closed distilleries:

Medley Rye- Older bottlings of Hirsch, post-PA Michter's(?), Black Maple Hill rye, others?

Mix of Medley Rye and Cream of Kentucky rye (Bernheim distillery)- Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye.

Stitzel-Weller bourbon- Pappy Van Winkle (20 & 23 only?), Jefferson's Reserve 17, 18 et al

A few American bottlers and/or marketers have been purchasing 100% rye rye from a Canadian distillery or distilleries. It is often presumed these are from Alberta distillers in Calgary, but as of yet there is no firm evidence. So far, these are Whistle Pig, Jefferson's and Masterson's Rye. Jefferson's may be switching to American-made rye.

*Brand(s) not wholly owned by the distiller.

**Based on more current information.

PROBLEMS/QUESTIONS/CONTROVERSIES: Regan & Regan list an approximate mashbill for all the bourbons made at "Ancient Age Distillery" as 80/10/10. That can't be right, but which mashbill does that represent, #1 or #2?

Also, a mashbill of 75/20/5 is listed for Old Fitz, Weller and Rebel Yell while at Bernheim. What is the current mashbill?

How much Stitzel-Weller is in Pappys 20 & 23, if any?

How much Medley and Cream of Kentucky Rye does VWFRR contain, and how much Buffalo Trace distillate?

Again, if anybody sees anything screwy, don't be shy! Post it here so it can be corrected.

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sob0728

Under the Beam ryes you can now add Knob Creek Rye.

The Whiskey Tree kicks ass.

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Josh
Under the Beam ryes you can now add Knob Creek Rye.

The Whiskey Tree kicks ass.

Thanks! Corrected.

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ethangsmith

As for the WT thing, that really surprises me. I thought I had even read some literature or something from WT at one point mentioning the higher rye percentage. It even tastes like it has quite a bit more rye in it than other bourbons. Weird.

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Josh
As for the WT thing, that really surprises me. I thought I had even read some literature or something from WT at one point mentioning the higher rye percentage. It even tastes like it has quite a bit more rye in it than other bourbons. Weird.

I agree. I think that distinctive taste must come from a combo of the high char level and low entry proof.

Just noticed some mistakes of a typo/usage nature. Updating the tree...

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