Whiskey Tree

[Josh]

...wrapped in a polo shirt.

[CorvallisCracker]

Your Beam bourbon mashbill does not equal 100......

As those percentages came from this post, it would suggest that it was Booker that couldn't do math...

[ethangsmith]

As those percentages came from this post, it would suggest that it was Booker that couldn't do math...

That's funny. So I wonder what the Beam mashbill actually is. Would Parker and Craig Beam at HH be using the same mashbill as they are at Jim Beam due to family heritage or would that not matter when it comes to stuff like mashbills?

[HP12]

Mashbill Source: Regan & Regan, The Book of Bourbon and Other Fine American Whiskeys (London: Mixellany) 2009, unless otherwise noted. Barton, WT, and Dickel are noted as approximate.

Brand Name (%corn/%rye or wheat/%malted barley)

Whiskey Tree, 5.0

Note: These tree is only a breakdown of "macro" distillers

Barton-1792, #3 char, Independent Stave

Barton (75/15/10)- Very Old Barton all proofs +???

1792 (high barley?)- 1792 Ridgemont Reserve, +???

Other Bourbons: Tom Moore BiB, Kentucky Gentleman, Kentucky Tavern, Ten High, Walker's Delluxe, other "cats & dogs".The rest, unknown

Rye 37/53/10? (speculation based on label of High West Double Rye!)- Fleischman's Rye

Before it was purchased by Sazerac, sold to a lot of NDPs.

Beam, #4 char, Indepnedent Stave

Beam Mashbill (76/13/10)- all JB bourbons, Old Crow, Old Taylor*, Knob Creek, Baker's, Booker's

Old Grandad Mashbill (63/27/10)- OGD, Basil Hayden

Rye- JB Rye, Old Overholt, Ri¹, Knob Creek Rye

Brown-Forman, #3 char, Brown-Forman Cooperage

Old Forester (72/18/10)- Old Forester, Woodford Reserve

Early Times (79/11/10)

Jack Daniels (80/8/12)

Rye (see Heaven Hill below)- Current source of Heaven Hill's Pikeville and Rittenhouse ryes.

Also sells to many NDPs.

Buffalo Trace, #4 char, Independent Stave

#1, higher corn BT White Dog, Benchmark, Buffalo Trace, Old Charter, Eagle Rare, Col. E.H. Taylor, Geo. T. Stagg

#2, lower corn- Ancient Age*, Elmer T. Lee*, Hancock*, Blanton's*, Rock Hill Farms*, Virginia Gentleman/Bowman Bourbons?

Wheat bourbon: Everything Weller, Van Winkle Special Reserve "Lot B"*, Old Rip Van Winkle*, Pappy Van Winkle 15 y/o*

Rye: Sazerac, Bowman Rye, Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye* (?)

Diageo, char #3, Indpendent Stave

Dickel (80/12/8)George Dickel, Cascade Hollow

Four Roses, #3.5 char

Has 2 mashbills and 5 yeasts.

All Ten Combinations- Four Roses (yellow label)

OBSK, OBSO, OESK, OESO- Four Roses Small Batch

OBSV- Four Roses Single Barrel

All the combinations are also available as Single Barrel, Barrel Strength retailer bottlings.

Also sells whiskey to Diageo that goes into Bulleit (from the high rye OBS recipes) and I.W. Harper (not available in the U.S.) and produces the overseas version of McKenna. For more information, including mashbills, see Oscar's chart here.

Heaven Hill, #3 char, Indpendent Stave

Rye Bourbon (75/13/12)- Heaven Hill, J.T.S. Brown, T.W. Samuels, Evan Williams, Elijah Craig, Henry McKenna (U.S.), Parker's Heritage (except for 2010), et al. Also probably the source of Luxco's Ezra Brooks line and the current Yellowstone.

Wheat Bourbon- Old Fitzgerald, Parker's Heritage 2010. Also probably the source of Luxco's Rebel Yell and Rebel Reserve.

Wheat Whiskey- Bernheim Original

Rye Whiskey (37/51/12, aprox.)**- Future source of Pikesville and Rittenhouse 80 & BiB, Stephen Foster, current source of Rittenhouse 21 & 23 (?)

Corn Whiskey: Mellow Corn, JW Corn, Georgia Moon, Platte Valley*

Also sells to many NDPs.

LDI, ??? char, Independent Stave?

Sells bourbon and rye for many brands including Templeton, Redemption et al, High West, W.H. Harrison, Cougar (Australia), Bulleit Rye and KBD. For a breakdown of the of corn, rye and bourbon whiskey mashbills used, see the MGP website: http://www.mgpingredients.com/product-list/

Maker's Mark, #3 char, Independent Stave

Maker's Mark (70/16/14)

Wild Turkey, #4 "the heavy char", Independent Stave

Bourbon (75/13/12)- Wild Turkey, Russell's Reserve Bourbon

Rye (37/51/12, aprox.)**- Wild Turkey Rye, Russell's Reserve Rye

Brands on the market with whiskey from closed distilleries:

Medley Rye- Older bottlings of Hirsch, post-PA Michter's(?), Black Maple Hill rye, others?

Mix of Medley Rye and Cream of Kentucky rye (Bernheim distillery)- Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye.

Stitzel-Weller bourbon- Pappy Van Winkle (20 & 23 only?), Jefferson's Reserve 17, 18 et al

A few American bottlers and/or marketers have been purchasing 100% rye rye from a Canadian distillery or distilleries. It is often presumed these are from Alberta distillers in Calgary, but as of yet there is no firm evidence. So far, these are Whistle Pig, Jefferson's and Masterson's Rye. Jefferson's may be switching to American-made rye.

*Brand(s) not wholly owned by the distiller.

**Based on more current information.

PROBLEMS/QUESTIONS/CONTROVERSIES: Regan & Regan list an approximate mashbill for all the bourbons made at "Ancient Age Distillery" as 80/10/10. That can't be right, but which mashbill does that represent, #1 or #2?

Also, a mashbill of 75/20/5 is listed for Old Fitz, Weller and Rebel Yell while at Bernheim. What is the current mashbill?

How much Stitzel-Weller is in Pappys 20 & 23, if any?

How much Medley and Cream of Kentucky Rye does VWFRR contain, and how much Buffalo Trace distillate?

Again, if anybody sees anything screwy, don't be shy! Post it here so it can be corrected.

Time to get this post to the front/back of the thread. Great resource.

[MauiSon]

Concerning Wild Turkey's ryes, I picked this off somewhere (sorry I didn't save the attribution) - "The Rye is made much like the bourbon, except there is about 65% rye in it (with about 23% corn and 12% barley malt). I say "about" because Jimmy doesn't hold with giving out exact figures, or too much information in general."

Edited August 31, 2012 by MauiSon

[Josh]

Time to get this post to the front/back of the thread. Great resource.

Thanks!

Concerning Wild Turkey's ryes, I picked this off somewhere (sorry I didn't save the attribution) - "The Rye is made much like the bourbon, except there is about 65% rye in it (with about 23% corn and 12% barley malt). I say "about" because Jimmy doesn't hold with giving out exact figures, or too much information in general."

Interesting. Having any luck remembering where you saw that?

[redbear]

Googling around, I see this Cowdery post from 2001.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?682-Bourbons-relationship-with-Rye-whisky

[MauiSon]

Just plug it in, unless there's better information elsewhere. It was obviously the result of an 'interview' with JR and redbear has that confirming bit from Chuck, too. OTOH, it may be old data. You decide.

Edited September 1, 2012 by MauiSon

[HighInTheMtns]

In Josh's tree the WT Rye is double starred to denote that it reflects new information. He also refers to the same Regan book that Chuck does in the post you linked. I'm guessing that the info in that book is not correct.

[MauiSon]

Okay, I noticed that the percentages changed between tree post #19 and tree post #56, but no discussion concerning the change for WT occurred between those posts - so what is the source of the 'new information'? I'll buy into it, but I'd like to see how it evolved ('cause the way it looks, WT was updated along with the HH information). Oops, now I see it in post #62 - a 2007 interview with Eddie Russell per Chuck. Never mind.

Here's the most recent quote of the 65% rye stuff:

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/16470

Edited September 1, 2012 by MauiSon

[redbear]

Okay, I noticed that the percentages changed between tree post #19 and tree post #56, but no discussion concerning the change for WT occurred between those posts - so what is the source of the 'new information'? I'll buy into it, but I'd like to see how it evolved ('cause the way it looks, WT was updated along with the HH information). Oops, now I see it in post #62 - a 2007 interview with Eddie Russell per Chuck. Never mind.

Here's the most recent quote of the 65% rye stuff:

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/16470

He doesn't say where he gets his information. It reads like a rehash of previously posted information.

[Bmac]

Not sure how accurate this is, but two things:

1¤ the latest release of VB17, although a wheater, is not SW. You have it listed with JPS and PVW.

2¤ Is ETL a wheater? I thought it was a 7-9 yr rye bourbon? Please clarify if this is the regular current release or a special edition.

[callmeox]

Not sure how accurate this is, but two things:

1¤ the latest release of VB17, although a wheater, is not SW. You have it listed with JPS and PVW.

2¤ Is ETL a wheater? I thought it was a 7-9 yr rye bourbon? Please clarify if this is the regular current release or a special edition.

ETL is listed multiple times as BT rye mash #2 (lower corn).

Where do you see it listed as a wheater?

[Josh]

I'm not seeing where I have Vintage 17 listed anywhere, either.

Also noticed that nobody has corrected my incorrect use of et al. Should be etc.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Josh

[dbk]

Also noticed that nobody has corrected my incorrect use of et al. Should be etc.

[HighInTheMtns]

I'm not seeing where I have Vintage 17 listed anywhere, either.

Also noticed that nobody has corrected my incorrect use of et al. Should be etc.

[Bmac]

ETL is listed multiple times as BT rye mash #2 (lower corn).

Where do you see it listed as a wheater?

When they compared it to Weller. How can you compare a wheater to a rye?

[White Dog]

When they compared it to Weller. How can you compare a wheater to a rye?

What do you mean by this sentence??

Josh clearly has ETL listed as BT#2 low corn.

[luther.r]

What do you mean by this sentence??

Josh clearly has ETL listed as BT#2 low corn.

I think he's referring to this post, which was addressed shortly after it was published.

[kickert]

You can easily compare a wheater to a rye. We tend to think that mashbill is the be-all and end-all when it comes to defining characteristics. Yeast, barrels, warehouses, blending techniques and "distillery characteristics" are all just as important. I will go on record as saying I think ETL is much more similar to Weller 12 than it is to something like Evan Williams even though the mashbill of the later is more similar.

[Josh]

The latest version of the tree lists Vintage 17, and also you switched from et al to etc at that time :-)

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?15005-Whiskey-Tree&p=285944&viewfull=1#post285944

[White Dog]

Thank you, mods!!!

[smokinjoe]

Thank you, mods!!!

+1. Great move.

And, thanks to Josh for his work.

:toast:

[OscarV]

Also noticed that nobody has corrected my incorrect use of et al. Should be etc.

So this is what they teach at Purdue?

[Josh]

So this is what they teach at Purdue?