Our ongoing observations about whether the boom has peaked

[alcoholica]

So another chain not named Total Wine has been trying to figure out what to do with whiskey. They just can't figure out what to do. So some stuff is still floating in like WSR and EHTSB. They were hesitant when I asked if they had anything behind the counter (I was hoping for an OWA or Blanton's for a buddy). But when I turned both of those down, they started opening up about things because they figured I was a drinker and not a flipper. They told me that they had a policy to not sell to anyone suspected of being a flipper, which I think is pretty cool. Thankfully, they had some rum on clearance that I wanted to try, so I left with something. 

[Shizzy]

19 hours ago, FreddyC said:

Just from an anecdotal point of view, there are some folks that have enjoyed whiskey/bourbon for many years, but didn't know it was a "thing". For the past 25 years or so, I have gravitated to bourbon/whiskey because I liked it and not beer. I generally picked up what coincided with what was in my wallet.    Only in the past year (less than that really) have I evolved into an "enthusiast", but I don't feel like I'm just jumping on the bandwagon as I didn't even know there was a bandwagon to get on! I enjoy getting recommendations from people that are long time lovers of bourbon and not just getting in on the "cool" factor. That has led me to BiB brands and that's what I gravitate to as every day drinks. I like a variety, but I don't hoard....well I guess a little....when McKenna BiB won its' latest award I bought a few bottles (one for my boss) when the shelves started clearing out. I like that stuff and didn't want to have to do without it when I wanted it. Now I just sip it as a "special" gift to myself. If you find it at a chain store here in Louisville, it can still be had for $33, but some of the independent stores have been selling it for over $50. 

 

I'm still not really immersed in the bourbon culture, but I'm learning by coming to this site and I watch a couple YouTube channels (The Bourbon Guild is a favorite) that are fun and informative. So, to answer in line with the topic, a new enthusiast like myself sees it (the boom) as being bigger than I had previously thought. I'm on the side of wanting the hipsters and Johnny Come Lately's to move on so I can get my hands on some stuff that I won't likely get to try otherwise. 

 

I think this is my first "real" post, and I want to say I do enjoy lurking and reading what you guys/gals comment on! You veterans are full of great info! 

You have put into words exactly how I became an enthusiast.  I drank Manhattans often and fiddled with different bourbons and vermouths before I found what I liked.  It wasn't long before I was just sipping bourbon neat.  Then I wanted to discover what else was out there, so I bought several different kinds.  I felt a bit lost because there were soooooo many to choose from and I was tired of the hits and misses.  So, I decided to find some like-minded people on the internet to help guide me.  This site and podcasts have helped point me in the right direction.  I wasn't aware of the "boom" until I really began immersing myself into this culture.  That said, I don't have an elitist attitude.  I'll drink pretty much whatever if it tastes good.  MGP or Kentucky born.  It matters not to me.  Just make it taste good.

[Harry in WashDC]

6 hours ago, Shizzy said:

. . .  I'll drink pretty much whatever if it tastes good.  MGP or Kentucky born.  It matters not to me.  Just make it taste good.

THIS is bourbon Zen.  Sit down, Grasshopper, and have a swig or six.  It is "Sleep in a chair" time.

[flahute]

25 minutes ago, Harry in WashDC said:

 It is "Sleep in a chair" time.

Does the sofa count?

[Richnimrod]

On 5/30/2019 at 5:52 PM, FreddyC said:

You veterans are full of great info! 

Well!    I for one, have been accused of being 'full of' something...  

And, I know more than a few of us are 'full of something'.   

I guess between all of the keystrokes, as well as the ones of us that really do know things about stuff, there is likely a good bit of "great info" here. 

Your job, my friend, is to sort through it and sift out the 'great info' while leaving the rest of the stuff to be taken with a grain of salt, as it were.   

Fair Warning: Anything I post is to be taken with plenty of salt! 

[The Black Tot]

15 hours ago, Richnimrod said:

 Fair Warning: Anything I post is to be taken with plenty of salt! 

Rich must be full of tequila...

[Paddy]

2 hours ago, The Black Tot said:

Rich must be full of tequila...

That ain't all he's full of...

[Shizzy]

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 11:58 AM, HoustonNit said:

 

 

How old do you think the Old Fitz decanters are, 70s SW? If so it’s maybe the only thing not crazy, I still wouldn’t pay it but...

 

Admiring that Elmer T. Lee bottle I was running through my purchase history on K&L and came across this gem from 2012.  Ahhhhh the good ol' days.

[HoustonNit]

How old do you think the Old Fitz decanters are, 70s SW? If so it’s maybe the only thing not crazy, I still wouldn’t pay it but...

Admiring that Elmer T. Lee bottle I was running through my purchase history on K&L and came across this gem from 2012.  Ahhhhh the good ol' days.

Good days indeed and I bet that bottle you picked up in 2012 is likely better than the recent bottlings.

My post about the Old Fitz decanter was an obvious brain fart. Mako must be referring to the new ones and I for some reason was thinking they had an old one the 70s or 80s. Not sure what I was thinking.

[JoeTerp]

On 5/29/2019 at 12:03 PM, Mako254 said:

Seen in a handful of stores along I95 from St Augustine Fl to where 26 picks up north of walterboro:

-Booker’s (anni’s answer) for $109. They wouldn’t budge stating ‘buffalo trace made it an allocated item’

-Blantons for $170

-ETL $150

-multiple four roses SBLE for $499

-Booker’s rye for $1499

-pvw and btac w/ no price 

-old fitz decanters for $299

 

to hell with all of that and the taters driving it. 

 

 

Well there's a reason they still have these bottles.

[BrokeCal]

I think I'm going to stop being part of the problem.  I'm going to stop asking for Antique 107, W12, Blanton's, HMBIB, etc etc.... I'm just going to stick to what I know is good and easily available and at MSRP. Stuff like OGD114, WT101, MMCS, WTRB, KCSB, OFSB, EC, etc.  It's not worth the headache anymore, not when so much great bourbon is readily available.  Besides, to be honest with myself, the hard to find stuff isn't tangiblly better than the available stuff.  I only buy the rare stuff because it's rare... Which is pretty stupid.

[beasled]

1 hour ago, BrokeCal said:

I think I'm going to stop being part of the problem.  I'm going to stop asking for Antique 107, W12, Blanton's, HMBIB, etc etc.... I'm just going to stick to what I know is good and easily available and at MSRP. Stuff like OGD114, WT101, MMCS, WTRB, KCSB, OFSB, EC, etc.  It's not worth the headache anymore, not when so much great bourbon is readily available.  Besides, to be honest with myself, the hard to find stuff isn't tangiblly better than the available stuff.  I only buy the rare stuff because it's rare... Which is pretty stupid.

Congrats on reaching bourbon zen!

[mal00768]

4 hours ago, BrokeCal said:

I think I'm going to stop being part of the problem.  I'm going to stop asking for Antique 107, W12, Blanton's, HMBIB, etc etc.... I'm just going to stick to what I know is good and easily available and at MSRP. Stuff like OGD114, WT101, MMCS, WTRB, KCSB, OFSB, EC, etc.  It's not worth the headache anymore, not when so much great bourbon is readily available.  Besides, to be honest with myself, the hard to find stuff isn't tangiblly better than the available stuff.  I only buy the rare stuff because it's rare... Which is pretty stupid.

Amen brother!

[smokinjoe]

4 hours ago, BrokeCal said:

I think I'm going to stop being part of the problem.  I'm going to stop asking for Antique 107, W12, Blanton's, HMBIB, etc etc.... I'm just going to stick to what I know is good and easily available and at MSRP. Stuff like OGD114, WT101, MMCS, WTRB, KCSB, OFSB, EC, etc.  It's not worth the headache anymore, not when so much great bourbon is readily available.  Besides, to be honest with myself, the hard to find stuff isn't tangiblly better than the available stuff.  I only buy the rare stuff because it's rare... Which is pretty stupid.

There’s really no harm in asking, so there is no reason to stop doing so.  Sure, enjoy all of the others.  They really are that good.  But, since it seems that the hard to find labels you mention many times are kept off the shelves, the only way to get them is to ask.  Asking is not part of the problem.  I think too many people unnecessarily beat themselves up because they are being led to feel guilty for wanting some of these allocated labels.  That’s too bad, really.  My opinion is that as long as you are not obsessing over them, and regularly heading out on an encompassing “hunt” to grab as many of these allocated  bottles as you can fit in your van, you’re probably OK. Like the DICK who is clearing out the McKenna at the Meijer...

 

 

[Marekv8]

1 hour ago, smokinjoe said:

There’s really no harm in asking, so there is no reason to stop doing so.  Sure, enjoy all of the others.  They really are that good.  But, since it seems that the hard to find labels you mention many times are kept off the shelves, the only way to get them is to ask.  Asking is not part of the problem.  I think too many people unnecessarily beat themselves up because they are being led to feel guilty for wanting some of these allocated labels.  That’s too bad, really.  My opinion is that as long as you are not obsessing over them, and regularly heading out on an encompassing “hunt” to grab as many of these allocated  bottles as you can fit in your van, you’re probably OK. Like the DICK who is clearing out the McKenna at the Meijer...

 

 

 

The flipside to this is when pulled aside by a LS owner who whispers “Hey, only one bottle of XXXX came in today, and I held it for you,” I feel obligated to buy it with enthusiasm and overt appreciation in order to maintain my good standing on the short list for tricky-ass bottles. So, I end up with gifts galore. It doesn't pay to turn down the Godfather.
 

 

[alcoholica]

5 hours ago, BrokeCal said:

I think I'm going to stop being part of the problem.  I'm going to stop asking for Antique 107, W12, Blanton's, HMBIB, etc etc.... I'm just going to stick to what I know is good and easily available and at MSRP. Stuff like OGD114, WT101, MMCS, WTRB, KCSB, OFSB, EC, etc.  It's not worth the headache anymore, not when so much great bourbon is readily available.  Besides, to be honest with myself, the hard to find stuff isn't tangiblly better than the available stuff.  I only buy the rare stuff because it's rare... Which is pretty stupid.

Yeah once you get past about $30, there's usually a diminishing point of returns. Really probably lower than that. Not going to lie though, some of the rare bottles are worth their MSRP, but very very few are. And we have all fallen victim to buying these rare bottles.

[smokinjoe]

57 minutes ago, Marekv8 said:

 

The flipside to this is when pulled aside by a LS owner who whispers “Hey, only one bottle of XXXX came in today, and I held it for you,” I feel obligated to buy it with enthusiasm and overt appreciation in order to maintain my good standing on the short list for tricky-ass bottles. So, I end up with gifts galore. It doesn't pay to turn down the Godfather.
 

 

Exactly!

[alcoholica]

8 hours ago, Marekv8 said:

 

The flipside to this is when pulled aside by a LS owner who whispers “Hey, only one bottle of XXXX came in today, and I held it for you,” I feel obligated to buy it with enthusiasm and overt appreciation in order to maintain my good standing on the short list for tricky-ass bottles. So, I end up with gifts galore. It doesn't pay to turn down the Godfather.
 

 

Last time that happened, I was offered an ETL for $80, I passed. I had just picked one up for $50. Not sure it's worth $50 to be honest.

[Limegoldconvertible68]

I’m wondering if others are feeling the same way I am.  Throughout this whole boom I have faithfully visited the smaller local shops and most have rewarded me with an occasional nice bottle at a fair price. This year, however, things are almost universally different.  The number of shops that are pricing close to secondary unbelievable. When I ask what happened the owner tells me he can’t justify selling it for less. Not even to faithful customers.  I’ve just about reached the point where I have ZERO incentive to visit these places. I’m better off just going to big box shops like Costco or Sams. Most bottles are at least $5 sometimes $10 cheaper and I can usually find something decent.  Why even buy anything from the smaller shops?  

 

Im not there yet but I can see a time coming soon where there just won’t be a reason to give any business to the small shops.  Is it possible some shift like this will stop the boom?  

[lcpfratn]

I’m wondering if others are feeling the same way I am.  Throughout this whole boom I have faithfully visited the smaller local shops and most have rewarded me with an occasional nice bottle at a fair price. This year, however, things are almost universally different.  The number of shops that are pricing close to secondary unbelievable. When I ask what happened the owner tells me he can’t justify selling it for less. Not even to faithful customers.  I’ve just about reached the point where I have ZERO incentive to visit these places. I’m better off just going to big box shops like Costco or Sams. Most bottles are at least $5 sometimes $10 cheaper and I can usually find something decent.  Why even buy anything from the smaller shops?  
 
Im not there yet but I can see a time coming soon where there just won’t be a reason to give any business to the small shops.  Is it possible some shift like this will stop the boom?  

We don’t have large chain stores in our market (not currently legal), but my business still goes to shops in my area that do reward their regular customers. As you stated, there are certainly those stores that price bottles at secondary, and some even sell their most highly sought after allocated bottles to one or two individuals at close to secondary and ignore their regular customers...needless to say, I seldom, if ever, darken the doorway of those stores. So, keep doing business with the stores that do their best to reward their regular customers for shopping at their store. The stores that forget this, and go for the easy money now, will be some of the ones that don’t survive when the cycle eventually turns.

[Marekv8]

2 hours ago, alcoholica said:

Last time that happened, I was offered an ETL for $80, I passed. I had just picked one up for $50. Not sure it's worth $50 to be honest.

 

At anything above retail, all bets are off.  That equates to feeding the hand that bites you. 

[alcoholica]

2 hours ago, Limegoldconvertible68 said:

I’m wondering if others are feeling the same way I am.  Throughout this whole boom I have faithfully visited the smaller local shops and most have rewarded me with an occasional nice bottle at a fair price. This year, however, things are almost universally different.  The number of shops that are pricing close to secondary unbelievable. When I ask what happened the owner tells me he can’t justify selling it for less. Not even to faithful customers.  I’ve just about reached the point where I have ZERO incentive to visit these places. I’m better off just going to big box shops like Costco or Sams. Most bottles are at least $5 sometimes $10 cheaper and I can usually find something decent.  Why even buy anything from the smaller shops?  

 

Im not there yet but I can see a time coming soon where there just won’t be a reason to give any business to the small shops.  Is it possible some shift like this will stop the boom?  

Yeah, that happened early last year to me. I shopped almost exclusively at a store that hooked me up, at a time I was building my bunker, so I bought quite a bit. They went to a list system and I started spreading my money out. The only line I have now is that I get a text from a store associate when they get something good in, but first come first serve 

[kevinbrink]

12 hours ago, Marekv8 said:

 

The flipside to this is when pulled aside by a LS owner who whispers “Hey, only one bottle of XXXX came in today, and I held it for you,” I feel obligated to buy it with enthusiasm and overt appreciation in order to maintain my good standing on the short list for tricky-ass bottles. So, I end up with gifts galore. It doesn't pay to turn down the Godfather.
 

 

I have bought a few pricey bottles a year from the same store for a number of years, last year I walked in one fall day and my monger told me he held the GTS he got for me, I purchased one from him the previous year for $199 which was apparently my threshold, this year he rang it up at $499 and I passed quite easily. Relationship building unfortunately isn't always a two way street. 

[lcpfratn]

I have bought a few pricey bottles a year from the same store for a number of years, last year I walked in one fall day and my monger told me he held the GTS he got for me, I purchased one from him the previous year for $199 which was apparently my threshold, this year he rang it up at $499 and I passed quite easily. Relationship building unfortunately isn't always a two way street. 

Yeah, he certainly wasn’t doing you any favors at that price!

[mbroo5880i]

27 minutes ago, kevinbrink said:

I have bought a few pricey bottles a year from the same store for a number of years, last year I walked in one fall day and my monger told me he held the GTS he got for me, I purchased one from him the previous year for $199 which was apparently my threshold, this year he rang it up at $499 and I passed quite easily. Relationship building unfortunately isn't always a two way street. 

I spent a lot of time building relationships over the years only to see significant turnover and increasing demand at the stores I frequented.  Sure, I would like a recent WLW or GTS but that's just not in the cards unless I want to significantly overpay.  I have found my zen by learning what I really like and to stop hunting those things that are realistically unattainable.  I now look for opportunities to buy what I like on the cheap and to sample unique but not widely known offerings.