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BigBoldBully

Our ongoing observations about whether the boom has peaked

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0895
7 hours ago, The Black Tot said:

 

It depends. A lot of what we love about well aged MGP has to do with who aged it, and where. 

 

MGP are great distillers, but rack house experts? I doubt it. At least based on the nearly universal "meh" reviews for the times when MGP has tried to release their own limited edition products.

 

It's a real shame - all that liquid could be sitting pretty in Smooth Ambler's warehouses right now becoming something awesome, instead of Dickel and other things I don't like as much that SA resorted to when MGP doubled or tripled the cost of their distillate.

While I generally agree with what you say, 

the thing that has crossed my mind is that perhaps mgp doesn’t want to sell their best whiskey under their house brands. 

They probably can’t afford to potentially ruin the relationship they have with their bulk customers, by selling a product deemed superior. 

They did do a great job on the Roseville barrel proof though... perhaps unintentionally. 

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fishnbowljoe
18 hours ago, FasterHorses said:

Will be very interested to see how this goes for MGP. After reading the article, it sounds like they got a little too greedy. Hope it works in our favor. 

 

I’m kinda wondering if the competition from Bardstown Bourbon Company and Castle & Key might be affecting how MGP is now conducting their business. :huh:

 

Biba! Joe

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smokinjoe

MGP was simply at the right place at the right time.  They rode the wave of this bourbon boom as they had whiskey to fill private label, private selections, and “special” releases, across many labels while the legacies were tapped out in these areas.  The market eventually realized that it was just mediocre and bland blending whiskey, and not worth the price that its increased pricing was demanding.  And, here we are.  

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PaulO

MGP could have taken a cue from Smooth Ambler and others.  Bottle single barrel at barrel proof, with a nice age statement.

Instead, MGP's own releases were sporadic, odd, and rather pricey.  I'm talking about stuff like Metze's Select.  It wasn't like they were trying hard to build a brand.

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fishnbowljoe

Is it possible that MGP might have failed to jump on their own bandwagon in a more timely fashion? :huh:  Things that make you go huh.......

 

Biba! Joe

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FasterHorses
7 minutes ago, fishnbowljoe said:

Is it possible that MGP might have failed to jump on their own bandwagon in a more timely fashion? :huh:  Things that make you go huh.......

 

Biba! Joe

Seems like they could have leveraged their position a little more wisely. Maybe partnered with SAOS. Demand could have remained high for MGP SAOS and Im sure it wouldnt be hard to find an agreeable “sweet spot” price that benefitted both parties. 

But.. I dont have a successful spirits company so what do I know?

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kevinbrink

Sign of the times, in NY PM Spirits released Mic Drop 3 yesterday a 4 year old high rye MGP priced around $70, the local bourbon group is going nuts over it and it has already been put up on the secondary auctioning for a STUPID price.... I still contend that the market will come back a bit but luxury Bourbon is here to stay just like luxury Single Malt, and of course "Luxury" is defined by less tangible characteristics that whats on the back of the ol' baseball card.

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Marekv8
6 minutes ago, kevinbrink said:

Sign of the times, in NY PM Spirits released Mic Drop 3 yesterday a 4 year old high rye MGP priced around $70, the local bourbon group is going nuts over it and it has already been put up on the secondary auctioning for a STUPID price.... I still contend that the market will come back a bit but luxury Bourbon is here to stay just like luxury Single Malt, and of course "Luxury" is defined by less tangible characteristics that whats on the back of the ol' baseball card.

 

Amazing but believable. I shudder to think what the 140 bottles of Mic Drop 2 are changing hands for these days, probably Brora money. I'm pretty sure there's a Mic Drop 1 sitting with my name on it behind a counter in NYC, I might need to do a bottle check next time I'm up.

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HoustonNit
Sign of the times, in NY PM Spirits released Mic Drop 3 yesterday a 4 year old high rye MGP priced around $70, the local bourbon group is going nuts over it and it has already been put up on the secondary auctioning for a STUPID price.... I still contend that the market will come back a bit but luxury Bourbon is here to stay just like luxury Single Malt, and of course "Luxury" is defined by less tangible characteristics that whats on the back of the ol' baseball card.


Perfect analogy.
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mal00768
2 hours ago, kevinbrink said:

Sign of the times, in NY PM Spirits released Mic Drop 3 yesterday a 4 year old high rye MGP priced around $70, the local bourbon group is going nuts over it and it has already been put up on the secondary auctioning for a STUPID price.... I still contend that the market will come back a bit but luxury Bourbon is here to stay just like luxury Single Malt, and of course "Luxury" is defined by less tangible characteristics that whats on the back of the ol' baseball card.

4 year old bourbon for $70? Wtf!? I can get Russels Reserve for $55-$60 any day of the week.

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The Black Tot

Sounds like a waste of money, effort, and time to me.

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mal00768

A local store is releasing multiple barrel picks tomorrow. Normally that would be a great thing in this day and age but..

 

$69.99 for Blantons 

$54.99 for OWA

$59.99 Knob Creek Rye 

$39.99 Eagle Rare

$31.99 Buffalo Trace

 

They also bumped the Bookers up to something like $89.99 a bottle. Everything just keeps going up.

 

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PaulO
55 minutes ago, mal00768 said:

A local store is releasing multiple barrel picks tomorrow. Normally that would be a great thing in this day and age but..

 

$69.99 for Blantons 

$54.99 for OWA

$59.99 Knob Creek Rye 

$39.99 Eagle Rare

$31.99 Buffalo Trace

 

They also bumped the Bookers up to something like $89.99 a bottle. Everything just keeps going up.

 

I haven't seen OWA for a long time, so can't comment on that.

The others seem way out of line, compared to my local prices.

It could be a regional thing, or that store gouges customers, or both.

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0895
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, mal00768 said:

A local store is releasing multiple barrel picks tomorrow. Normally that would be a great thing in this day and age but..

 

$69.99 for Blantons 

$54.99 for OWA

 

$39.99 Eagle Rare

 

 

 

Those store picks would likely be same day sellouts here, even at $10 higher per bottle than the prices you posted. 

:(

 

Edited by 0895
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macdad
2 hours ago, 0895 said:

 

 

Those store picks would likely be same day sellouts here, even at $10 higher per bottle than the prices you posted. 

:(

 

My guess is they would in Ohio too.  At least the Blanton's.  I can't find it anywhere.  There was apparently a shipment a couple weeks ago, but I think most were gone before they even hit the shelves for public sale.

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mal00768

Oh everything sells same day alright. Later this year they are getting two barrels of Weller full proof in.. wonder what those will cost. They are already going for $750 on secondary.

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0895
3 hours ago, mal00768 said:

Oh everything sells same day alright. Later this year they are getting two barrels of Weller full proof in.. wonder what those will cost. They are already going for $750 on secondary.

I can't help but wonder who would buy that, when you can get WLW for about the same price?

I mean, if you're gonna buy at sucker price, buy the best one at least.

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PaulO

People need to keep in mind, until proven otherwise, most barrel picks are indistinguishable or surprisingly close to the standard brand profile.  It may even seem worse to some people.  Good stores let you sample.

I remember not long ago, a store would get a deal on buying a whole barrel.  Then they had a lot of bottles to move.  Customers got a price of a buck or two less than normal.  😁

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Kepler
2 hours ago, PaulO said:

People need to keep in mind, until proven otherwise, most barrel picks are indistinguishable or surprisingly close to the standard brand profile.  It may even seem worse to some people.  Good stores let you sample.

I remember not long ago, a store would get a deal on buying a whole barrel.  Then they had a lot of bottles to move.  Customers got a price of a buck or two less than normal.  😁

^^This

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Kepler
14 hours ago, 0895 said:

Those store picks would likely be same day sellouts here

 

 

As long as this keeps happening then expect  prices  to continue  to rise. There are new whiskey enthusiasts joining every day.

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Hawk13
Posted (edited)

Long time lurker, first time poster so yeah I know my words don't carry weight. 😁 However, what got me to post was the post about the store pick Blanton's for $69.99 and someone else commented how they would sell quickly in their area at that price.  Blanton's has disappeared from my area a while ago. A local store has brought in about a dozen store picks of things over the summer.  One was Blanton's.  $100 bought you a ticket for the night it was handed out, food and samples, and gave you one bottle of Blanton's.  If you bought a ticket you got the option to buy another bottle at $69.99, and any left from that night went on sale to the public. I think there was 70 tickets available (there was like a 40 ticket more expensive private tasting party on top of the 70), sold out in less than 4 days.  As for the remaining bottles from the barrel left from the night before, well the store opens at 9 am and it was gone by 9:10 I believe.  This same store is now advertising Weller Special Reserve is coming, not a store pick, and that has never been available in our area as far as I know.  Who knows what it will price at.

Edited by Hawk13
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Clueby
5 hours ago, Hawk13 said:

Long time lurker, first time poster so yeah I know my words don't carry weight. 😁 However, what got me to post was the post about the store pick Blanton's for $69.99 and someone else commented how they would sell quickly in their area at that price.  Blanton's has disappeared from my area a while ago. A local store has brought in about a dozen store picks of things over the summer.  One was Blanton's.  $100 bought you a ticket for the night it was handed out, food and samples, and gave you one bottle of Blanton's.  If you bought a ticket you got the option to buy another bottle at $69.99, and any left from that night went on sale to the public. I think there was 70 tickets available (there was like a 40 ticket more expensive private tasting party on top of the 70), sold out in less than 4 days.  As for the remaining bottles from the barrel left from the night before, well the store opens at 9 am and it was gone by 9:10 I believe.  This same store is now advertising Weller Special Reserve is coming, not a store pick, and that has never been available in our area as far as I know.  Who knows what it will price at.

Yeah $70 seems to be the new norm for the minimum price locally. I see it often for higher. One store I know has it for $118. My "honey hole" for $54 has dried up.

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EarthQuake
Posted (edited)
On 8/2/2019 at 4:07 AM, The Black Tot said:

 

It depends. A lot of what we love about well aged MGP has to do with who aged it, and where. 

 

MGP are great distillers, but rack house experts? I doubt it. At least based on the nearly universal "meh" reviews for the times when MGP has tried to release their own limited edition products.

 

It's a real shame - all that liquid could be sitting pretty in Smooth Ambler's warehouses right now becoming something awesome, instead of Dickel and other things I don't like as much that SA resorted to when MGP doubled or tripled the cost of their distillate.

Hmm, I've seen this theory before but I'm not sure I understand or agree with it. There have been a number of upstart distilleries that have released well-aged (10-14 year) MGP stock that has been great, Blaum Bros, Boone County, and OKI come to mind. These places are too new to have done any significant portion of the aging themselves. Then we have the somewhat more well known brands like Belle Mead, Redemption, etc that probably didn't do much aging with the MGP sourced releases they've put out, some of which have been fantastic. I also question just how long those MGP barrels aged at Smooth Ambler. In any case, I doubt they have a magic warehouse that turns garbage whiskey into gold.

 

I would guess that it is more about barrel picking and bottling method than who aged it where, with Smooth Ambler et al being better dialed in to what customers want than MGP (age stated, single barrel, barrel proof). 

 

I also don't understand why MGP has a reputation for "mediocre blending whiskey" when their high and low rye mash bourbons are exceptionally similar to some of Four Roses recipes. Unless we're going to call Four Roses mediocre blending whiskey as well. Sure, MGP has provided a lot of young whiskey for new / low end brands, but when we're talking ~10 year barrel proof, there are few distilleries that make better bourbon than MGP. Lots of other distilleries provide young whiskey for NDPs too, Heaven Hill for instance.

 

Really, MGP gets a bad rap because they had so much stock at the right time, and provided so much of it to crappy new brands that bottled it too young, watered it down too much, or did dubious stuff with it like claiming to have distilled it and adding flavoring (I'm looking at you, Templeton). How accountable should MGP really be held for this tomfoolery?

 

PS: It's good to hear that their house bottled rye seems to be decent, that's been on my try list for a while. I'm a fan of Remus Reserve II as well, though for the price I would have loved higher proof/barrel proof. In any case, I'll take a Remus Reserve over anything Buffalo Trace is putting out these days, short of BTAC.

Edited by EarthQuake
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kcgumbohead
15 hours ago, Hawk13 said:

Long time lurker, first time poster so yeah I know my words don't carry weight. 😁 However, what got me to post was the post about the store pick Blanton's for $69.99 and someone else commented how they would sell quickly in their area at that price.  Blanton's has disappeared from my area a while ago. A local store has brought in about a dozen store picks of things over the summer.  One was Blanton's.  $100 bought you a ticket for the night it was handed out, food and samples, and gave you one bottle of Blanton's.  If you bought a ticket you got the option to buy another bottle at $69.99, and any left from that night went on sale to the public. I think there was 70 tickets available (there was like a 40 ticket more expensive private tasting party on top of the 70), sold out in less than 4 days.  As for the remaining bottles from the barrel left from the night before, well the store opens at 9 am and it was gone by 9:10 I believe.  This same store is now advertising Weller Special Reserve is coming, not a store pick, and that has never been available in our area as far as I know.  Who knows what it will price at.

Welcome to the board!! Given the current market conditions and particularly if someone is new to bourbon ( not saying you are, this is a general response). Firstly are you partial to wheated bourbon? If notand it is a matter of never having tasted the vaunted Weller label perhaps patience is the best approach. Other wheated recipes sit readily available on shelves. I certainly understand the desire to sample many things and establish a reference for ones tastes and preferences, and it was incredibly easy and affordable just a mere 6-7 yrs ago. These days I would say rather than hunt and pay for these harder to find releases look at what is available. Have you ( again the general population) tasted through and identified preferences among the readily available releases that have not  been subject to the price escalation some other brands have?

Heaven Hill, Wild Turkey, Four Roses, Beam, Brown Forman, Dickle,   newcomers New Riff and Wilderness Trail, Dads Hat and many others. It isn’t all about Sazaerac. 

Easy for me to say as they are far from my favorite distillery. Well made and excellent quality yes but their flavor profiles are not my personal favorites. I know this because I have had them and the others I listed so I was able to form those opinions. In time the Saz labels will return to shelves en masse and you too will be able to sample through their wares at your leisure. In the mean time the shelves are full of outstanding pours waiting to be sampled and explored without standing in line, camping out or buying lottery tickets.

Enjoy the journey and take your time, Slainte. 

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