Jefferson's Reserve Presidential Select 17yr

[Lost Pollito]

Has anyone compared the different batches? How many have their been so far? Two? I have only tasted Batch #1.

We've got batch #1 at the store. Funny thing...I checked the back-stocked and looked at the case box. The bottle pictured on the case says, batch: b-14. How many batches are there? I'd say ask Drew if you see him in SF. They were bottling a new run when we visited during kbf. This whole batch thing will be fun to keep up with.:grin: I suspect there are quite a few different runs off the bottling line in Bardstown.

[jburlowski]

They have batch 6 on the shelf at the Party Source.

[MrAtomic]

Hello All,

I spent some time over the weekend with my bottle of JPS (Batch 1). I don't pretend to possess a large tasting vocabulary, but I do have some thoughts:

I've enjoyed virtually all of the S-W whiskies I've been able to sample. Perhaps the one exception is the "A" bottling of PVW 23, which ia a little dry and lifeless for my taste. I mention PVW 23 because I had a similar reaction to the JPS 17 -- it has a terrific nose, and one that reminds me of PVW 15 and 20, as well as the small number of older production S-W whiskies I've been able to taste.

Despite the sweet, enticing nose, I do not enjoy the taste of JPS very much. Again, it seems to have a lot of wood influence, and tastes "flat." I know that "flat" isn't a generally accepted term so I'll try to explain: At both bottle proof and with a bit of water, the JPS tastes primarily of wood, tempered with just a bit of sweetness at the finish that lingers after swallowing for a few seconds (very pleasantly, I should add). After working my way through a quarter of the bottle over various days and in several types of glass, I'm not picking up much else -- just the dry wood and subtle sweetness immediately before and after swallowing. The mouthfeel isn't excessively thin, but I wouldn't describe it as enhancing the experience, either.

To me, there's little "depth," personally defined as the swirl of multiple (and at times shifting) flavors in a bourbon that encourage me to drink slowly and to tease out these various tastes. As a counter-example, I've also been drinking a bottle of Binny's Hand-Picked Elmer T. Lee (around 14 years old according to Brett, if I remember correctly). Now, I understand that the JPS is a wheated bourbon while the ETL is a rye, but I'd like to compare their basic characteristics -- without arguing that one is "better" than the other.

Where the JPS seems two-dimensional (dry wood into a subtle flash of vanilla), the ETL is more complex -- an oily mouthfeel, some identifiable rye notes, and a candy-like sweetness that builds and eventually overwhelms the spiciness of the rye. Exhaling through my nose when drinking the ETL adds additional interesting flavors without searing my sinuses. It's been fun teasing out these tastes and aromas. I don't find the JPS as entertaining, or as vibrant.

While this may qualify as blasphemy, I decided to mingle some of the JPS with Binny's Hand-Picked Weller 12; I'd say the proportion was 90% JPS to 10% Weller (and possibly even a bit less). To my tastes, the Weller added some terrific life and sweetness between the initial burst of dry wood and lingering, mild vanilla. The mingling did not alter the aroma or fundamental character of the JPS, but transformed it into a more layered and enjoyable whiskey. I'll be doing this again.

Hopefully these thoughts don't cross the line into pretentious "whiskey-speak." Bottom line -- adding a bit of Brett's Weller 12 changed the JPS from a bourbon with a great nose and flat taste into a bourbon with a flash of youthful sweetness. These are just my observations, and not an attempt to rank one bourbon as better than the other. That said, I won't be stockpiling the JPS.

Thanks for reading.

[hectic1]

Great post Paul...

I had pours of Binny's Weller 12 and JRPS last night and I actually prefered the Binny's Weller 12 as the sweet entry was really doing it for me. Nothing wrong with not stock piling the JRPS...I have a couple bottles here and I most likely won't bunker anymore. I will however be bunkering a number of the Binny's Weller 12 bottles when funds allow!

[Gillman]

Very good post, I agree. I took a bit of the same JRPS and batch in my glass to see if I correlate with your comments. I agree it has a great nose, that typical S-W honeyed nose. I can't quite agree on the taste, I find it rich and complex, sweet throughout despite the wood influence. I haven't had recent experience with Van Winkle's 20 and 23 year old bourbon whiskeys, but from what I recollect this is up there with them. I recognize that some of those too offered a different palate over the years. I'd say, it is very good. But taste differs, and I liked how you approached the tasting and you described it very well.

Just another comment, which is really echoing something you said, that it is perhaps difficult to compare a wheat-recipe and rye-recipe bourbon.

Gary

[MrAtomic]

Gillman and Hectic1,

Thanks very much for your comments. I admit, I was a little hesitant to post my lukewarm reactions to a S-W whiskey for fear of being branded a crank with a cast-iron tongue.

Gillman, I had you in mind when I mingled the JRPS with a bit of Binny's Weller 12. I've learned a lot from your posts and appreciate your input on my notes. Based on your interest in the arts of blending and tasting, I thought you'd be interested to know that I sampled the JRPS after a 3-day fast. For medical reasons I have to fast for 1-3 days fairly often and I find that the process has a very significant, positive effect on my sense of taste and smell. After a 3 day fast, even something as bland as a rice cake has a very definite aroma and discernible flavors. It's great fun to sample bourbons with a supercharged palate, and I wanted to find all sorts of new flavors and sensations in the JRPS. I think I picked up more sweetness -- I'm not sure what to call it, but it reminded me of Bulls-Eye candies. Veering slightly off-topic, a taste of cask-strength Caol Ila 10 was like being clouted in the face with a rasher of bacon wrapped in alcohol-soaked peat. Great stuff.

I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from buying the JRPS. Clearly, a lot of members disagree with my observations. Hell, the nose alone is worth quite a bit and I'm looking forward to comparing it with bottles of ORVW 15/20.

[Gillman]

Thanks for those comments, and I should have added earlier that your addition of the Weller 12 made perfect sense. Really you were dropping the average age of the drink by a few years, and it made a difference clearly. I agree too that coming to any of these drinks, or any foods, with a fresh palate can make a significant difference to how we perceive flavour. I won't go so far as to say familiarity breeds contempt, but it does perhaps deaden palate to a degree. I am sure if some could only taste, say, Jack Daniels once a month and have no other liquor - someone who enjoys a drink - it would be rated much higher than sometimes appears from the cognoscenti. (I say this as someone who likes JD and doesn't need that excuse). Anyway, thanks for the reportage, and hopefully there will be more.

Gary

[kateric]

Ok... I'm going to be in the minority here... got my bottle of Jefferson Rsv Pres today and I don't think I'll be opting for a second bottle. The positives: richer than you would think for a 94 proof, spicer than you would think for a wheater, a very nice richness (especially for this proof)... but, there is a 'steeliness' (for a lack of a better word) that is oft-putting to me. I just don't think it is as 'balanced' as say... a WL Weller (BTAC) that is diluted down. In addition, it is definitely not as sweet as a WL Weller (BTAC) diluted down! I think I will either stick to the original Jefferson (for it's unique character) and if I want something more powerful -- I'll just dilute my WL Weller (BTAC); or if I want something in that proof that is smoother, I'll opt for my ER 17, which is also somewhat 'chewier' on the finish. (Sorry if these descriptors are odd to you, but my alcohol vocabulary probably isn't advanced as my experience).

[kateric]

Clarification... I meant to refer to the Jefferson Rsv Very Old (Small Batch) in my previous post when saying I'd opt for it rather than the 17 yr Presidential, not the 'original' Jefferson - which is different than the Very Old Small Batch...

[spun_cookie]

Has anyone seen batch 3, 4 or 5 yet... and is there a batch 7?

[doubleblank]

I'm thru about 1/2 a bottle of Batch 2. I too tend to find the sweet, enticing nose to be followed by a simple mid palate and a rather dry, short finish. That dry finish would normally indicate a wheated bourbon even older that 17 yrs. Perhaps these barrels were stored in the hotter portions of the rickhouse for some period of time?

Randy

[OscarV]

I'm thru about 1/2 a bottle of Batch 2. I too tend to find the sweet, enticing nose to be followed by a simple mid palate and a rather dry, short finish. That dry finish would normally indicate a wheated bourbon even older that 17 yrs. Perhaps these barrels were stored in the hotter portions of the rickhouse for some period of time?

Randy

I have to agree and I'm not quite satisfied with this bottle.

There is a deep nuttiness in the finish all though fairly short.

BTW, I'm referring to Batch #2 also.

[shoshani]

I was a little hesitant to post my lukewarm reactions to a S-W whiskey for fear of being branded a crank with a cast-iron tongue.

Don't be. I haven't bought it and I doubt I will, because this is from S-W's last year of production. By the time this was made the evisceration of Stitzel-Weller had been done: higher barreling proof and a reduction of malt coupled with the inclusion of enzymes.

I'll brand myself a crank with a cast-iron tongue for saying that it may be wheated bourbon from the Stitzel-Weller distillery, but it's not S-W bourbon in the classic sense from when Pappy's Old Fitzgerald made its mark (ha) on the bourbon world.

[sailor22]

The whole SW thing is pretty murky to me - and while I find all these things interesting -- who/when/how/why/who owned/last year/big or small batch/master distiller/son/grandson/cousin/recipe/proof/warehouse/barrel type/location/history/future/marketing/scarcity/last batch -- none are interesting enough to make me buy it unless I thought it was a good pour. It's how it tastes that is the bottom line for me. I got a sample from a friend and liked it - bought two bottles from a different batch number (they taste a little different but still good) and think it is a great $60 bottle of Bourbon. I had to pay more than that because of all the buzz words mentioned above. Sample it and decide if it's worth the buzz word mark up to you.

[MikeK]

I got to taste this last night. It is definitely S/W, a bit lighter than Pappy-15, a bit of wood, but not really that much. It was very nice, I would not mind having a full glass to sit and enjoy at home.

Chuck made a good comparison earlier. This definitely reminds me of the Everetts bottling from a couple years back. Very similar with a bit more wood to it.

A nice drink no doubt, but I'll still take a Pappy instead.

[StraightBoston]

Just found a Batch 3, but didn't pick it up (haven't opened up batch 2 yet!)

[BBQ+Bourbon]

Hello All,

I spent some time over the weekend with my bottle of JPS (Batch 1). I don't pretend to possess a large tasting vocabulary, but I do have some thoughts:

I've enjoyed virtually all of the S-W whiskies I've been able to sample. Perhaps the one exception is the "A" bottling of PVW 23, which ia a little dry and lifeless for my taste. I mention PVW 23 because I had a similar reaction to the JPS 17 -- it has a terrific nose, and one that reminds me of PVW 15 and 20, as well as the small number of older production S-W whiskies I've been able to taste.

Despite the sweet, enticing nose, I do not enjoy the taste of JPS very much. Again, it seems to have a lot of wood influence, and tastes "flat." I know that "flat" isn't a generally accepted term so I'll try to explain: At both bottle proof and with a bit of water, the JPS tastes primarily of wood, tempered with just a bit of sweetness at the finish that lingers after swallowing for a few seconds (very pleasantly, I should add). After working my way through a quarter of the bottle over various days and in several types of glass, I'm not picking up much else -- just the dry wood and subtle sweetness immediately before and after swallowing. The mouthfeel isn't excessively thin, but I wouldn't describe it as enhancing the experience, either.

To me, there's little "depth," personally defined as the swirl of multiple (and at times shifting) flavors in a bourbon that encourage me to drink slowly and to tease out these various tastes. As a counter-example, I've also been drinking a bottle of Binny's Hand-Picked Elmer T. Lee (around 14 years old according to Brett, if I remember correctly). Now, I understand that the JPS is a wheated bourbon while the ETL is a rye, but I'd like to compare their basic characteristics -- without arguing that one is "better" than the other.

Where the JPS seems two-dimensional (dry wood into a subtle flash of vanilla), the ETL is more complex -- an oily mouthfeel, some identifiable rye notes, and a candy-like sweetness that builds and eventually overwhelms the spiciness of the rye. Exhaling through my nose when drinking the ETL adds additional interesting flavors without searing my sinuses. It's been fun teasing out these tastes and aromas. I don't find the JPS as entertaining, or as vibrant.

While this may qualify as blasphemy, I decided to mingle some of the JPS with Binny's Hand-Picked Weller 12; I'd say the proportion was 90% JPS to 10% Weller (and possibly even a bit less). To my tastes, the Weller added some terrific life and sweetness between the initial burst of dry wood and lingering, mild vanilla. The mingling did not alter the aroma or fundamental character of the JPS, but transformed it into a more layered and enjoyable whiskey. I'll be doing this again.

Hopefully these thoughts don't cross the line into pretentious "whiskey-speak." Bottom line -- adding a bit of Brett's Weller 12 changed the JPS from a bourbon with a great nose and flat taste into a bourbon with a flash of youthful sweetness. These are just my observations, and not an attempt to rank one bourbon as better than the other. That said, I won't be stockpiling the JPS.

Thanks for reading.

Your impression and mine were similar as was my reaction. I mixed a splash of OWA with it and found it to be much better. This was very disappointing considering the respective price of the two bottles.

I will be looking to dump the two unopened bottles I have in favor of something else.

[spun_cookie]

Anyone seen Batches 4 or 5? I am trying to locate one of each...

[WsmataU]

Anyone seen Batches 4 or 5? I am trying to locate one of each...

[dgonano]

Yea, I ordered 3 bottles in Maryland but, of course, the retailer was required to purchase the full six pack case. I bought the case...1 bottle from batch 3 and 5 bottles from batch 4. I already have some batch 1 from the KBF week.

[cowdery]

What is the deal with these "batches" anyway? What constitutes a batch?

[spun_cookie]

Got a batch 4 today (well virtually) from a member... down to needing Batch 5 and I will have 1 of the first 6.

I heard about a batch 7 that turned up... not sure I want to go beyond the first 6 that were all relased at the same time...

Anyone know how many batches of this "limited" product that will be out? or how many bottles or barrels per batch?

I read that there were 400 barreles, 2100 cases, 12600 bottles were in work before, but that was not all the SW juice they had... asI understand it.

The quick math tells me about 2100 bottles per batch of ~67 barrels per batch, but that may not be correct if there were more than 6 batches in the first 400 barrels.

[spun_cookie]

What is the deal with these "batches" anyway? What constitutes a batch?

Got a batch 4 today (well virtually) from a member... down to needing Batch 5 and I will have 1 of the first 6.

I heard about a batch 7 that turned up... not sure I want to go beyond the first 6 that were all relased at the same time...

Anyone know how many batches of this "limited" product that will be out? or how many bottles or barrels per batch?

I read that there were 400 barreles, 2100 cases, 12600 bottles were in work before, but that was not all the SW juice they had... asI understand it.

The quick math tells me about 2100 bottles per batch of ~67 barrels per batch, but that may not be correct if there were more than 6 batches in the first 400 barrels.

Now that is funny Chuck... thinking the same thing...

[whskylvr]

JRPS was produced in 6 packs and 3000 cases were produced. So thats 18000 bottles. They do have more and are looking at producing an 18 yr next year. Hope this helps.

[spun_cookie]

JRPS was produced in 6 packs and 3000 cases were produced. So thats 18000 bottles. They do have more and are looking at producing an 18 yr next year. Hope this helps.

Nice... How about batch size?