Elijah Craig Barrel Proof

[Louisiana]

IMO it's damn good. Some may be better than others, but that's with every release. Stagg, WLW, Handy, & All FR LE's. I would focus more on the price than which batch . I have a bunker full of ECBP, so at that price I'd pass. If I didn't though it's still a pretty good deal. Don't tell your retailer or Heaven Hill that I said that.

[Guardian Enzo]

25 minutes ago, Louisiana said:

IMO it's damn good. Some may be better than others, but that's with every release. Stagg, WLW, Handy, & All FR LE's. I would focus more on the price than which batch . I have a bunker full of ECBP, so at that price I'd pass. If I didn't though it's still a pretty good deal. Don't tell your retailer or Heaven Hill that I said that.

 

Yeah, it's a tough one, you know?  In theory $65 bucks for it is a ripoff, but I see lots of "reputable" shops selling it for upwards of a hundred or even more.  And no one else I've found locally has it.  I've actually never tried ECBP so it's very tempting - if it was Batch #11 it'd probably be a slam-dunk.

[amg]

25 minutes ago, Guardian Enzo said:

 

Yeah, it's a tough one, you know?  In theory $65 bucks for it is a ripoff, but I see lots of "reputable" shops selling it for upwards of a hundred or even more.  And no one else I've found locally has it.  I've actually never tried ECBP so it's very tempting - if it was Batch #11 it'd probably be a slam-dunk.

 

There are bottles on the shelf for well over $100 (at MSRP) that are not as good as ECBP.

[Theiano]

Batch 10 is the only batch I've tried, and I liked it. For a barrel proof its a bargain at anything under around $70. @ MRSP of 50 or so its a no brainer

[Guardian Enzo]

So when I went back to pick up the #10, the owner was there so I asked him to check the shelf, and it turned out he had one bottle of Batch 9 (135.6).  Probably couldn't go wrong either way but I decided to take a stab at that one, as what reviews I could find of it were pretty glowing.  Looking forward to giving it a try.

[Louisiana]

If anyone reads reviews check out the one smokybeast wrote on ECBP. They complain about prices, then gloat about how their review will increase prices. Dont understand what they are trying to accomplish.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Louisiana

[The Black Tot]

On 9/1/2016 at 9:52 PM, amg said:

 

There are bottles on the shelf for well over $100 (at MSRP) that are not as good as ECBP.

 

Yeah, but try to keep in mind that ECBP is basically just EC without the extra water in it.

 

While they do choose better barrels for it, how much worse is EC for less than half the price?

 

At anything up to $50 ECBP makes much more sense to me.

 

The one I got for 65 was set aside for me, so you know how that goes.

[flahute]

1 hour ago, The Black Tot said:

 

Yeah, but try to keep in mind that ECBP is basically just EC without the extra water in it.

 

While they do choose better barrels for it, how much worse is EC for less than half the price?

 

At anything up to $50 ECBP makes much more sense to me.

 

The one I got for 65 was set aside for me, so you know how that goes.

Not any more. ECBP is still 12 years old whereas regular old EC is now anywhere between 8-12 years old.

ECBP at $65 is still a buy to me because it's so much better than many at the same price (or more). That's about max price though.

[GaryT]

6 hours ago, flahute said:

Not any more. ECBP is still 12 years old whereas regular old EC is now anywhere between 8-12 years old.

ECBP at $65 is still a buy to me because it's so much better than many at the same price (or more). That's about max price though.

 

Yeah - I'll admit I've passed on ECBP at $60 before based on the logic of "What - I paid just $35 last year for the first release - nearly DOUBLE?!"  In hindsight, that was a little stupid.  Barrel proof 12 yr bourbon isn't that easily accessible.  Bookers (typically 7-8 yrs) runs north of $50 here.  Most SAOS SB releases aren't that old, and for 8 or 9 yr old comes in around $50 or more.  All things considered, when I run out - I'd probably pay $65 no questions asked (with the caveat that there aren't rampant reports of quality degradation!) 

 

This comparison reminds me of the Handy vs Baby Saz discussion (and folks thought THH was overpriced in the BTAC lineup at $60 or $70, since it was just barrel proof Baby Saz, and around 7 yrs old).  I'd never pass up a THH on the shelf at $70, because I just can't take Baby Saz and up the proof   But like most things - what is a good value to some isn't to others.  

[amg]

Yep, if I could figure out how to remove the added water from my bourbon I would.

[garbanzobean]

13 hours ago, Louisiana said:

If anyone reads reviews check out the one smokybeast wrote on ECBP. They complain about prices, then gloat about how their review will increase prices. Dont understand what they are trying to accomplish.

That whole blog post was a head scratcher for me.  I guess if they wrote it in like December 2013, it would sort of make sense, though ECBP seems to have been coveted from the start.  Acting like you "discovered" ECBP in the latter half of 2016 is just plain bizarre.  Cat's been out of the bag for like three years, buddy.  I guess it's less weird than Ralfy's recent series on American Whiskies, but only because his viewership is so large.

 

The past couple years haven't changed much for me with regard to ECBP.  Still not big on it, though I can't really point to why it is kind of blah on my palate.  Sort of a kindness given how difficult it is to buy.  

[The Black Tot]

Yep, I agree it's retained it's age statement. But I guess that's part of my resistance to the argument - "It's better value now because we thinned out/cut the maturity of the value cousin."

 

Meh. This kind of shrinking iceberg of mature options as justification for price spikes may be reality, but to me, that's what my bunker was always about. Escaping such realities

 

I think I'll go get a glass and give reality the finger right now, in fact...

 

 

[The Black Tot]

...OH and with THH, I still can't buy it because I'm usually given a choice between a THH and a Stagg or, until last year anyway, an old-world Saz18.

 

I love THH, but it would have to be at retail and the only option before I pull the trigger. In the UK, there are a fair few bars that have THH for reasonable pour prices, if you know where they are. That's how I get my THH fixes (Handy jobs?)

Edited September 4, 2016 by The Black Tot

[garbanzobean]

In Spring 2013 I passed up an entire shelf full of THH from various years.  It honestly was a shelf turd in Maryland until Fall 2013 or early 2014.  A shame I didn't stockpile it, as it has ended up being a rye I really enjoy.  Oh well, it's not like I don't have a hundred other whiskies available for sorrow-drowning duties.

 

And TBT, I hear you on the bunker.  Having a variety of properly aged stock available is plenty nice to come home to.

[Guardian Enzo]

Well, I opened up the bottle of Batch 9 tonight and had my first experience with ECBP.  I have no idea if I made the right call taking the 9 over the 10, but this was pretty close to how I imagined it - deep and sweet and intense and butt-kicking.  I found letting it sit in the glass for 20 minutes and adding maybe 1/3 teaspoon of cold water helped enormously - it brought all the overwhelmingly powerful flavor elements into a more structured form and allowed some of the ethanol heat to dissipate.  I've never experienced a bourbon quite like it - subtle it's not, but it does have complexity, almost in the vein of a very well-aged rum.  There's some smoke and spice and stewed fruit -and of course that residual burn - to play off that deep, rich Muscovado sweetness.

[B.B. Babington]

21 hours ago, garbanzobean said:

That whole blog post was a head scratcher for me... Acting like you "discovered" ECBP in the latter half of 2016 is just plain bizarre.  Cat's been out of the bag for like three years, buddy.  I guess it's less weird than Ralfy's recent series on American Whiskies...  

Smoky Beast did make it clear it's been out there for a while in the August 2016 article.  NOTE: Smoky Beast reviewed ECBP in August 2013 with a back to back with CEHT BP and then soon to be released Stagg Jr. 

 

I've not seen recent Ralfy's, but his early bourbon reviews did make it clear he was just discovering an appreciation for American and wanted to share it with buds on his side of the pond.  Ralfy is primarily a whisky reviewer, not whiskey.

[garbanzobean]

I am aware that smokybeast reviewed ECBP in 2013.  My confusion is with his latest assertion that prices would go up as a result of it being revealed to the world, as if ECBP being good was somehow news.  

 

I have been watching Ralfy's videos for years.  I am aware of his background.  I highly suggest you watch series I mentioned and read the comments (some of them mine) before you defend it.  If you want to get drunk, have a shot every time he brings up a strange complaint about Four Roses.

[B.B. Babington]

18 minutes ago, garbanzobean said:

...I highly suggest you watch series I mentioned and read the comments (some of them mine) before you defend it.  If you want to get drunk, have a shot every time he brings up a strange complaint about Four Roses.

I should, I've been busy and it's been several years since I last visited his site.  Back then, I found him very entertaining.  Some of his vids were looong, but worth the watch.  For the noobie's to straightbourbon.com, you really should visit Ralfy's site at least once just to see him; he's an interesting bird. 

[Guardian Enzo]

Speaking as someone who's been primarily a whisky drinker, I enjoy Ralfy immensely. I view him primarily as an entertainer and take all his strongly-held opinions with a pound of salt, but I think he can be quite astute at times. I also think he's been pretty open about the fact that he's a relative newbie to bourbon and doesn't pass himself off as an authority, and he's quite willing to single out the things the bourbon industry does that the Scotch whisky industry could learn from.

[garbanzobean]

2 hours ago, Guardian Enzo said:

Speaking as someone who's been primarily a whisky drinker, I enjoy Ralfy immensely. I view him primarily as an entertainer and take all his strongly-held opinions with a pound of salt, but I think he can be quite astute at times. I also think he's been pretty open about the fact that he's a relative newbie to bourbon and doesn't pass himself off as an authority, and he's quite willing to single out the things the bourbon industry does that the Scotch whisky industry could learn from.

 

Did you watch the specific videos I'm referencing?  I myself enjoy Ralfy's channel and am grateful to him for the knowledge he shares without pretense, but this series was painful to watch, and I am absolutely not the first person on SB to remark upon it.  But hey, maybe you enjoy watching him go on long rants based on factually erroneous premises like bourbon being produced from GMO corn; or spend significant time on three different videos questioning Four Roses' integrity, make silly assertions about their recipe system without making any effort to google it first, and positing that they source some of their bourbon.  I personally do not, and because Ralfy presents himself as a curious individual who is always seeking knowledge, I choose not to withhold my criticism of his intentional ignorance.

 

If anyone else feels that my offhand comments regarding smokybeast or Ralfy warrant further discussion, please do so in PM format so the folks wanting to talk about ECBP can do so relatively unmolested.

[Charlutz]

I've been offline for a few days and am catching up. ECBP is a favorite of mine as is EC12. I think there are a few ways to discuss 'value' and they aren't necessarily right or wrong, just different.

 

They can also be subjective.  What I value in a bourbon may be different than others. I could sing the praises of EC all day for its age, proof and price, including ECNAS, EC12 and ECBP. I'm sad that the price and age are changing but it's not like HH is the only distillery doing it. Even after the price adjustments I still see value in a 12 year 135 proof bourbon at $60 or more. Yes, when comparing it to another value bourbon in the same line like EC12 it may diminish it but there is no doubt you are getting a lot for the price.

 

I could analyze and discuss the price v. proof v. age equation all day. I could also use my other value analysis: how does it taste and what do I pay for it? The answer to that question for me is always 'holy crap, that's good whiskey and it's not outrageously priced or a true unicorn.' I've got a few in reserve and it's not often I'll leave one on the shelf when I see it. Truly one of my favorites. Having ECBP and Booker's on your shelf is a good thing. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Charlutz

[smokinjoe]

1 hour ago, garbanzobean said:

...but this series was painful to watch, and I am absolutely not the first person on SB to remark upon it. 

 

 

Indeed, you are not the first person.  I posted this below last December in another thread:

 

"You know , I don't want to sound like a downer, here...but...Ralfy, as entertaining as he is on his Scotch reviews, is worthless on Bourbon, IMO.  I went through a couple of his reviews, and quickly tired of his mistakes.  Whiskeybitch...is just plain worthless, in general."

Edited September 4, 2016 by smokinjoe

[Guardian Enzo]

1 hour ago, garbanzobean said:

 

Did you watch the specific videos I'm referencing?  I myself enjoy Ralfy's channel and am grateful to him for the knowledge he shares without pretense, but this series was painful to watch, and I am absolutely not the first person on SB to remark upon it.  But hey, maybe you enjoy watching him go on long rants based on factually erroneous premises like bourbon being produced from GMO corn; or spend significant time on three different videos questioning Four Roses' integrity, make silly assertions about their recipe system without making any effort to google it first, and positing that they source some of their bourbon.  I personally do not, and because Ralfy presents himself as a curious individual who is always seeking knowledge, I choose not to withhold my criticism of his intentional ignorance.

 

If anyone else feels that my offhand comments regarding smokybeast or Ralfy warrant further discussion, please do so in PM format so the folks wanting to talk about ECBP can do so relatively unmolested.

 

I have soon most of those, yeah, and honestly I find them pretty harmless.  I get where you're coming from but like I said, I watch Ralfy mostly for entertainment value rather than as some kind of biblical whisky guru (especially when it comes to bourbon).

[tanstaafl2]

Equally off the point about Ralfy, a recent Whiskycast noted that he had just set some kind of speed record out at Bonneville on a 250cc motorcycle! I have to confess I would have never thought of him as a motorcycle speed demon.

[Rick M.]

2 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

Equally off the point about Ralfy, a recent Whiskycast noted that he had just set some kind of speed record out at Bonneville on a 250cc motorcycle! I have to confess I would have never thought of him as a motorcycle speed demon.

 

He's a rather atypical undertaker.