Current PVW Prices 2012/2013

[LostBottle]

Wow, and I've been throwing my empties in the recycling bin.

Good, this is how it should be. It is the responsible thing to do and is a widely accepted practice in the wine community when expensive bottles are consumed. Anyone who sells an empty Pappy bottle is probably complicit in counterfeiting.

[ChainWhip]

Nice Johnny :grin:

Drop the "l" off the label and it gives that juice a totally different meaning.

Perhaps, we too can have Rouge Lips if we partake of this Johnnie Worker?

Rest assured Pappy van Tinkle will make an appearance - I just hope the bottler didn't eat any asparagus before doing his job.

[gblick]

What is this asparagus reference? I've seen it a few times now and don't get it.

[smknjoe]

Drink the real thing and then fill the bottle back up with the same juice you just consumed. You don't want your urine to smell like asparagus. That would be a dead give away Gus!

[portwood]

What is this asparagus reference? I've seen it a few times now and don't get it.

Do yourself a favour, eat some asparagus. Report back if you still don't "get it".

[stevegoz]

Between the prices I've seen here and on Craigslist, I really wish the Van Winkle was our national currency. It would make paying for our kitchen work a lot easier; I'd just have to hit the bunker....

[Old Lamplighter]

Between the prices I've seen here and on Craigslist, I really wish the Van Winkle was our national currency. It would make paying for our kitchen work a lot easier; I'd just have to hit the bunker....

It wouldn't make any difference for me...I'd still be broke :frown: But, I've nobody to blame but me self due to my recent buying binges

[skidfive]

It wouldn't make any difference for me...I'd still be broke :frown: But, I've nobody to blame but me self due to my recent buying binges

I agree, Im not the wealthiest person in the world, and definitely spend more then I should, but it is the only thing I spend my money on. I work 45+ hours a week, I might as well spend my hard earned money on something I enjoy.

[LostBottle]

Passed on Van Wonka at retail. $799 for the 23 & $500 for the 20.

This shit is so overrated. Fuck Van Winkle.

[smknjoe]

Passed on Van Wonka at retail. $799 for the 23 & $500 for the 20.

This shit is so overrated. Fuck Van Winkle.

:grin: Thanks again LB.

[393foureyedfox]

Do yourself a favour, eat some asparagus. Report back if you still don't "get it".

some people lack the enzyme to break down asparagus....he may have never experienced 'asparagus pee', and unless he goes around sniffing urinals, he may not get it

[Yeti]

Passed on Van Wonka at retail. $799 for the 23 & $500 for the 20.

This shit is so overrated. Fuck Van Winkle.

The first line is perfectly appropriate for this thread. I think the 2nd might be a better fit for the "is it worth it" thread :slappin:

I'm hoping to find a 20 year at actual $120 retail, but otherwise, I can't disagree with you very much.

[p_elliott]

I think we need to remember that the Van Winkle family and BT are not responsible for what distributors and retailers do with their products. So any bad mouthing of them will not be tolerated.

[LostBottle]

I think we need to remember that the Van Winkle family and BT are not responsible for what distributors and retailers do with their products. So any bad mouthing of them will not be tolerated.

In that instance I was referring to the product line, and not the people, since Pappy does not cover the other also insanely over-hyped bottles of 10, 12, and rye.

Since the issue has been broached though, I feel no obligation to censor criticism and throw out only superlatives about either the product or the people behind it. I take issue with the S/W obfuscation games that have been played, and what appears to me, the badmouthing about enthusiasts who ask questions - especially as the S/W endgame neared. Here is an example that should irritate anyone on this forum:

Pappy fanatics fill Internet message boards, questioning the specifics of each bottle. Seriously, check out the blog Whisky Advocate if you have two hours to kill. "I mean, get a life. These are grown men acting like little old ladies, stirring up the pot," Julian says. "Do you like how it tastes? Then what's it matter what's in the barrel?"

Remember that this comes from the same people that built the Van Winkle name brand based on the real, and sometimes not, link to the legendary Stitzel-Weller juice. All of a sudden when the cat is out of the bag that Pappy may not be S/W and this may cut into the marketing hype, we are a bunch of "little old ladies stirring the pot"? Whatever. Way to badmouth the enthusiasts that got them through the lean years. Yet, they expect a free pass?

Edited November 20, 2013 by LostBottle

[KCJason1]

Passed on Van Wonka at retail. $799 for the 23 & $500 for the 20.

This shit is so overrated. Fuck Van Winkle.

[LostBottle]

Most of their prices are reasonable and I will continue to shop there. Their prices last year were reasonable, however, they are now aware of the secondary market (I am explicitly referring to bourbon Exchange and Craigslist here) and they have decided to price accordingly. I cannot blame them for doing so, why let a flipper take the money for doing nothing? Hell, price it higher and cut off all hope of making a quick buck! I passed, not because I am angry at the store, but because I feel Van Winkle QPR is questionable at retail prices and an absolute ripoff at anything much higher - like I said, the shit is so overrated.

The real lesson here is that if anyone thinks BX and Craigslist exist in a bubble, they are mistaken. There has been a systemic effect down to the distribution and retail levels where allocations are obtained in backroom agreements and prices are raised to crazy levels. My guess is that the Van Winkles, Buffalo Trace, and Sazerac love every moment of it; hype = $$.

Edited November 20, 2013 by LostBottle

[squire]

If you like the flavor does it matter what's in the barrel? If I'm being asked to pay a premium for something that's supposedly unique and in limited supply then yes, it matters a great deal.

[Yeti]

I can at least pretend to understand his sentiment, but the problem lies in the nature of the specific beast. There are plenty of NDP that have a consistent source of product for their bottles. Take something random, like Dickel Rye. We know that's LDI rye put through charcoal mellowing and then sold under the Dickel name. If I like it, I can assume I'll like the bottle I purchase next year as well. The Pappy Van Winkle line is quite different though. We know that at one point in the past it was one thing. For the sake of simplicity we'll say in this case, S-W bourbon. We know in the future it will be another thing, Buffalo Trace bourbon. What we don't know, because they won't tell us, is when the change started, in what degrees are they mingling, what is the rate of change in percentage of that mingling, and when will the product become exclusively Buffalo Trace distillate. Without that information, and with the completely absurd spectacle and cost associated with obtaining a bottle, it is impossible to assume that you will enjoy the next bottle as much as you enjoyed the previous bottle.

Which is all a laboriously long way of saying to Mr. Van Winkle, "I don't know if I like how it tastes, because you won't tell me what it is."

[KCJason1]

Most of their prices are reasonable and I will continue to shop there. Their prices last year were reasonable, however, they are now aware of the secondary market (I am explicitly referring to bourbon Exchange and Craigslist here) and they have decided to price accordingly. I cannot blame them for doing so, why let a flipper take the money for doing nothing? Hell, price it higher and cut off all hope of making a quick buck! I passed, not because I am angry at the store, but because I feel Van Winkle QPR is questionable at retail prices and an absolute ripoff at anything much higher - like I said, the shit is so overrated.

The real lesson here is that if anyone thinks BX and Craigslist exist in a bubble, they are mistaken. There has been a systemic effect down to the distribution and retail levels where allocations are obtained in backroom agreements and prices are raised to crazy levels. My guess is that the Van Winkles, Buffalo Trace, and Sazerac love every moment of it; hype = $$.

Why I agree it takes away from the flippers.... It also takes away from the true bourbon enthusiast who won't pay secondary or inflated store prices because of the rip off... I have a local who was gouging for $500 for 20yr last year he had about 8 bottles.. After talking to the other employees a month or so before this years allotment came out they said he only sold one last Christmas at $500... And there was only one left on the shelf now, but with a price of $1k... Either he drank them of put them on the secondary i'm guessing.. Needless to say I rarely shop there.

The straw that broke the camels back was when I stopped in to see about Stagg Jr.. They had 2 bottles on the shelf and I said I wanted one. They were price $52... The employee then said "I cannont sell you one, I think the owner wants to raise the price" REALLY? WTF.. ITS ON THE SHELF WITH A PRICE LISTED!!!

here are some of his sample prices:

PVW20: 500/1000

VW12: 250

THH: $130

Sam Adams Utopia: $500 he has like 6+ of last years

Yet OFBB 2013 is only $43... Not sure how that one got under his price gouging radar!

Edited November 20, 2013 by KCJason1

[squire]

It only makes sense that blending in has been going on for some time if only to avoid an abrupt shift in the profile. I expect the 20 and 23 year olds on the shelf today taste very like the 20 and 23s will five years from now when all the SW stock is gone.

[sutton]

I can at least pretend to understand his sentiment, but the problem lies in the nature of the specific beast. There are plenty of NDP that have a consistent source of product for their bottles. Take something random, like Dickel Rye. We know that's LDI rye put through charcoal mellowing and then sold under the Dickel name. If I like it, I can assume I'll like the bottle I purchase next year as well. The Pappy Van Winkle line is quite different though. We know that at one point in the past it was one thing. For the sake of simplicity we'll say in this case, S-W bourbon. We know in the future it will be another thing, Buffalo Trace bourbon. What we don't know, because they won't tell us, is when the change started, in what degrees are they mingling, what is the rate of change in percentage of that mingling, and when will the product become exclusively Buffalo Trace distillate. Without that information, and with the completely absurd spectacle and cost associated with obtaining a bottle, it is impossible to assume that you will enjoy the next bottle as much as you enjoyed the previous bottle.

Which is all a laboriously long way of saying to Mr. Van Winkle, "I don't know if I like how it tastes, because you won't tell me what it is."

Very well said...excellent post.

[docbible]

I see Van winkle like the gears of a car...

first gear: discovery by enthusiast willing to pay a little more for great bourbon.(sitting on shelves collecting dust)

second gear: enthusiast coming together and passing along information (SB.com, etc...) other enthusiast willing to try

third gear: promotion by mass media, chefs, articles, etc...

fourth gear: high public demand, lack of availability, price gouging, etc...

The Van Winkle machine is speeding down the interstate Without the need for us enthusiast. Unless the machine comes to a complete halt, there is no need to go back in first gear. tim

[gblick]

some people lack the enzyme to break down asparagus....he may have never experienced 'asparagus pee', and unless he goes around sniffing urinals, he may not get it

My wife makes great asparagus, but I've never taken note of how my pee smells after eating it.

[squire]

The Van Winkle machine is speeding down the interstate Without the need for us enthusiast. Unless the machine comes to a complete halt, there is no need to go back in first gear.

Wheels on fire, rolling down the road.

[smokinjoe]

My wife makes great asparagus, but I've never taken note of how my pee smells after eating it.

Well Gus, now you have something of an experiment to look forward to this weekend! Tell us how it goes!