portwood Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Do you think United Distillers would have closed down SW 20 years ago if they knew how much they could make on wheated bourbon? It's easy to second guess such decisions with such hindsight. Had UDL kept SW open we wouldn't be having this discussion .... 'cuz there would be hundreds of thousands of ho-hum bottles on the shelf (just like BT, WT, JB, JD, etc) and they would be selling for 20-40 bucks each.The frenzy exists today mostly because they're not making any more of it, and the stuff that survives exists because too few wanted to buy it when it was 4-10 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 People aspire for what they can't have. Why they can't have it can be for different reasons. All of the Above: Kate Upton.ISO: Kate Upton. Willing to f/t 2 dozen FRSmBLE and the complete set of FRSBLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutton Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Had UDL kept SW open we wouldn't be having this discussion .... 'cuz there would be hundreds of thousands of ho-hum bottles on the shelf (just like BT, WT, JB, JD, etc) and they would be selling for 20-40 bucks each.The frenzy exists today mostly because they're not making any more of it, and the stuff that survives exists because too few wanted to buy it when it was 4-10 years old.Ditto Scotch distilleries - do you think Port Ellen would have closed if they were selling it for $1000/bottle? The distillery would be the slze of the island if that were the case. Peated whisky was not fashionable and what they had went a long way in blends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd2005 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I was curious today so I looked around a little bit on the internet to see what the grey market prices are these days.Man. Ridiculous. Almost enough to make me want to sell what I have. Almost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChainWhip Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 ISO: Kate Upton. Willing to f/t 2 dozen FRSmBLE and the complete set of FRSBLE.Bwahahaha - truly sig worthy ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBottle Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) Ditto Scotch distilleries - do you think Port Ellen would have closed if they were selling it for $1000/bottle? The distillery would be the slze of the island if that were the case. Peated whisky was not fashionable and what they had went a long way in blends. Edited November 14, 2013 by LostBottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutton Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) No argument there - I have some of each (except St Magdalene) and I agree they are some great whiskies. But as you said, someone would have had to realize that these whiskies start to shine at older ages than the market at the time was demanding. I was (probably in an overly simplistic way) pointing out that if there was a $1000/bottle market at the time for aged Port Ellen or any other currently shuttered distillery, it would still be in operation. But that segment of the market growing could not be foreseen in 1983. Can anyone say what the whisk(e)y markets looks like in 2033-2043? That is what every one of the current distillers would have to know right now to make a bet on laying down enough barrels to have 20-30 year old whisk(e)y in any volume to serve the market down the road. So while hindsight is always 20/20, I can't fault the decisions made to close SW, Port Ellen, and others based on what their current experiences were telling them.I suppose you could factor in the cost of what a bet like that would mean today in net present value terms - and price your current product accordingly to defray at least some of the expense and carrying cost invested for 25 years if you had to take the 1/3 full barrel that was left at that time only to be dumped into your bottom shelf brand. But if that meant that current lower or mid-shelf brands were 20%-30% more expensive, I think we know the answer. Edited November 15, 2013 by sutton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smknjoe Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) Back on topic...The cheapest prices I've seen here are as follows:ORVW - $49-$66LotB ? - Not interested/didn't askPVW15 - $103-$129PVW20 - $185-$199PVW23 - $350VWFRR - $85-$99...and I finally scored my first bottles of (proper) PVW (I've been able to get ORVW and Lot B in the past.) For those who have never bought any I suggest you pick a store to frequent and get to know the employees/owners and hope for the best. I would not and have not tried much harder than that. A little patience and friendliness goes a long way.Edit: I forgot to add that I have seen absurd prices too. $400 for PVW15 and I didn't even ask the price of the other bottles. Edited November 15, 2013 by smknjoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblick Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Joe, I can't believe you've even seen any VW at all here, except maybe at that one store which I don't even like to go into anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smknjoe Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 that one store which I don't even like to go into anymore.That's where they have PVW15 for $400, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBottle Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) If you don't think fake Pappy bottles are out there, think again. What do you think people are doing buying up empties for very good money? Anyone who dismisses it merely as people putting it on their bar to impress their friends is asleep at the switch... Have a look here. $100 for empty 23 bottles? $60 for empty 20s? Yeah, only one thing those are being used for. Take a look at what Ralphy has to say . Edited November 15, 2013 by LostBottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutton Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 It was only a matter of time - given this industry hasn't adopted the anti-fraud tactics of the high-end wine industry, an empty bottle is almost worth what a full bottle was worth just a few years ago ... sad, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd2005 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Have a look here. $100 for empty 23 bottles? $60 for empty 20s? Yeah, only one thing those are being used for.Take a look at what Ralphy has to say . i can't believe how much those crappy rocks glasses are selling for!!@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBottle Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 It was only a matter of time - given this industry hasn't adopted the anti-fraud tactics of the high-end wine industry, an empty bottle is almost worth what a full bottle was worth just a few years ago ... sad, really.You are spot on with that comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCJason1 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Have a look here. $100 for empty 23 bottles? $60 for empty 20s? Yeah, only one thing those are being used for.Take a look at what Ralphy has to say .sketch bars are refilling them to pass off as pappy to unsuspecting customers as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P&MLiquorsEric Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 sketch bars are refilling them to pass off as pappy to unsuspecting customers as well..That has been going on for ages. I bet it happens more with wells being passed off as calls but no doubt it is occurring with products that are hard to get. Im surprised the Chinese have not knocked off whiskeys. Making outright counterfeit versions rather than refilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate762 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Local store prices last night;ORVW 10 - $129.00PVW 15 - $199.00PVW 20 - $529.00They had one of each. If interested Ill pick them up for ya for a small handling fee, just kidding. I nearly passed out.Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Local store prices last night;ORVW 10 - $129.00PVW 15 - $199.00PVW 20 - $529.00They had one of each. If interested Ill pick them up for ya for a small handling fee, just kidding. I nearly passed out.JimSounds like the real pirate is the one running that liquor store. Argh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBottle Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I'm surprised the Chinese have not knocked off whiskeys. Making outright counterfeit versions rather than refilling.Pray they don't. They did this with wine and have f*cked up the Bordeaux and Burgundy markets. Those fakes will be passed from collector to collector, either unwittingly or not, for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChainWhip Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 That has been going on for ages. I bet it happens more with wells being passed off as calls but no doubt it is occurring with products that are hard to get. Im surprised the Chinese have not knocked off whiskeys. Making outright counterfeit versions rather than refilling. You mean like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 You mean like this? Drop the "l" off the label and it gives that juice a totally different meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smknjoe Posted November 16, 2013 Author Share Posted November 16, 2013 Nice Johnny :grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Lamplighter Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Local store prices last night;ORVW 10 - $129.00PVW 15 - $199.00PVW 20 - $529.00They had one of each. If interested Ill pick them up for ya for a small handling fee, just kidding. I nearly passed out.JimThose numbers might have prompted me to utter some bleeps toward whomever was behind the counter as I headed out the door.:hot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 A loud, dismissive guffaw tends to deflate some of their self assurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblick Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Have a look here. $100 for empty 23 bottles? $60 for empty 20s? Yeah, only one thing those are being used for.Take a look at what Ralphy has to say .Wow, and I've been throwing my empties in the recycling bin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts